1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Circus Circus sold to Phil Ruffin

Discussion in 'Casino Industry & Development' started by Ken D, Oct 15, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ken D

    Ken D Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    16
    • Informative Informative x 3
  2. stlguy197239

    stlguy197239 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Messages:
    1,029
    Location:
    St. Louis
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    825 million?! That casino is finally getting torn down. That land is what is valuable, not the casino.

    Something else to watch for with this....a baseball stadium. There is room with the property to finally build an MLB stadium on the strip in that location.
     
    Let's try this Thanksgiving thing again
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,829
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I agree there's a long term play value to it, but I disagree on the baseball stadium part. They'd be insane to use North Strip fronted land for that vs. somewhere like the Rio or some other random plot of grass. The land is too valuable as some other development.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Crawfordesquire

    Crawfordesquire High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2011
    Messages:
    744
    Location:
    north carolina
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    13
    who said anything about a teardown? remodel, probably.
    cheaper sites for an mlb team can be had. according to the authority that is wikipedia, the raiders stadium site land cost less than 100 million.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  5. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    6,388
    Location:
    Chicago South Suburbs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    Best play would be to run it as a grind joint until someone wants the land. Or he could redevelop the casino and still have a nice parcel of undeveloped land to sell separately.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    1,396
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    That’s a steal of a price......

    I honestly didn’t think that Ruffin would go that route. The possibilities are endless for what he can do with that property and casino.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. SH0CK

    SH0CK Stylin' and Profilin' Quasi Tech Admin

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    18,638
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    46
    I think this is exactly what he's going to do.

    I also wouldn't be surprised if he ends up having a bit of a say in any Strip properties that El Dorado/CET sells as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Count de Monet

    Count de Monet High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2014
    Messages:
    551
    Location:
    Northwest Houston, Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    200
    I do not see this as a long term play for Ruffin. The guy's 84 years old, he has to be thinking let's make it happen now.

    A baseball stadium makes sense with a refresh to Circus Circus. Having a mid tier hotel/casino directly connected to the stadium would be a strong draw.

    Whatever his vision is, I believe Ruffin will be highly motivated to do it sooner than later and not just grind it out for a while if possible.
     
    Final Attempt for 2020
  9. alanleroy

    alanleroy Click my avatar

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,463
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    87
    Circus Circus would be awesome if they banned kids...and had the whole staff dressed like clowns.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. dmr

    dmr Registered Abuser

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    14,228
    Location:
    Somewhere in Middle America
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    70
    I sure don't see anything in the release that says anything about demolition.

    The one weasel word I do see is "affiliate", and I'm not really sure what to make of it, other than there's a reason that said affiliate is not named. One name comes to mind, but I don't think l wanna carry a can of worms in the direction of a can opener! :)
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    13,140
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    I think that is just referring to the company (maybe one that doesn't even exist yet) that Ruffin and his partners will use to close the purchase
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  12. Guy_

    Guy_ VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,122
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    I just hope he links players clubs.
    One of the biggest draws to CET and MGM is that you can bounce around multiple casinos and have your play added together.

    If Ruffin adds this to TI's players club it would make me think about trying that club out. (if he happens to snag another casino from CET/Eldorado and link it then I would certainly give them a try)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. azlefty

    azlefty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,539
    Location:
    West Jordan, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    Once the Riviera expansion of the convention center is completed, this property will become a lot more valuable because it's right across the street.

    $825mm for an asset that produces $62mm per year is a cap rate of about 13, which seems to be within the range of normal and probably a pretty good price for a cash cow that could survive without much additional investment. Maybe it will be used for something else someday, but with room rates generally higher than they have been in my memory, keeping it going on auto pilot seems like a pretty wise use of the asset now.

    Probably a holding company or trust for tax and liability purposes owned by ruffin and partners. This doesn't strike me as unusual.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Love Love x 1
  14. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2015
    Messages:
    3,829
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    It's not just 13 times EBITDA, he also bought the rest of MGM's land up there. It's a better deal than the current multiple would imply.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,633
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    13
    As long as there is enough land for both a hotel casino AND a ballpark I would likely disagree. MLB is 81 home games. Twice hockey or basketball and ten times football.

    So not only would a stadium be the draw north strip needs to win back relevance, but it could be pulling thousands right into or past your casino 81 days a year, and right through some pretty slow summer months, too.

    But I would certainly not build just a ballpark
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. alanleroy

    alanleroy Click my avatar

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,463
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    87
    Phil Ruffin is Vegas genius.

    He bought the New Frontier in 1998 for $165 million.

    He sold the New Frontier in 2007 at the height of the Vegas Property Boom for $1.2 billion.

    He bought TI at the depth of the Vegas Property Bust in 2009 for $600 million in cash and $175 million in secured notes

    Now he's getting Circus Circus in a bargain basement sale that includes the casino, the Adventuredome, the 10-acre RV park, and the 37-acre festival grounds. MGM needs to shore up their balance sheet and Circus Circus never fit their target markets. MGM gets $825 million, comprised of $662.5 million in cash and a $162.5 million note due in 2024.

    So now Ruffin owns two major Strip Casinos, The Adventuredome and 50 acres...all with very little debt....all from the proceeds of selling that dump The New Frontier.

    Here's a couple of interesting things he said about TI:

    "Ruffin expressed his lack of concern about buying a casino in a down market, because the TI will have very little debt."

    "In February 2018 he said he had turned down a "huge" offer for TI from a Chinese firm, explaining that Strip assets are "irreplaceable."There isn't any price they could throw at me that would interest me,’’ he said. "Money is not that valuable. Assets are valuable, especially when they are irreplaceable.’"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Ruffin
     
    • Love Love x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,821
    Location:
    San Diego
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Imagine if they detheme the place. They will have a bunch of goofy kids games but deny the circus connection. I would rather they leave it as the grind joint we all love.
     
  18. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,764
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    Say what you want about Ruffin, and I absolutely think he took a lot of the stuff away from TI that made it interesting to me (RIP the pirate show...), but I do think he genuinely enjoys Vegas and owning properties here.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,251
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    58
    Plus he has the only playable Video Poker (over 100% EV) on the strip ($0.50 Aces and Eights 100.25%). Hope the game stays, at least for my next two trips through early March.
     
  20. VegasGroove

    VegasGroove VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,649
    Location:
    3H-30M Away
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    57
    Logistically speaking, a ballpark ON the strip would be a disaster. Can you imagine the gridlock of traffic in that area, geting in to and out of a ballpark?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.