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CET ADT and getaway day?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by JR Swift, Mar 2, 2017.

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  1. JR Swift

    JR Swift VIP Whale

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    I have seen conflicting information on this so wondered if anyone knew for certain whether your checkout day is figured in as a gaming day even if you never use your card. If so, it would seem like you might as well play a little before checking out as it can only help. I have, however, been operating on the assumption that it does not.
     
  2. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    I believe that it's casino/locale independent. For example, I know that Reno/Tahoe, getaway day is not if you don't swipe your card. For Las Vegas, I'm not really sure.
     
    Another NGO trip. QQQQ/NYNY
  3. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I've recently heard from a player who I consider reliable that CET counts checkout day (in Vegas) regardless of whether you have any card activity.

    This is a player who doesn't just repeat hearsay as far as I know.

    However, I have to say it does not make a lot of sense to me, because it would severely penalize your ADT the shorter your stay is. If you stay 1 night, your ADT basically gets cut in half.

    If you went and stayed 1 night and did $10,000 coin in, your daily coin-in average would be calculated as $5,000.
    If you went and stayed 3 nights and did $30,000 coin in, your daily coin-in average would be calculated as $7,500.

    Would they really make a significantly worse offer, or worse comp night availability to the first player?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  4. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    Our host told us not to worry about it as check out day is taken into account but not for the bad in the logarithm they use. All I know is we usually leave on a 6 am flight and are long gone from the property by 630 (the time a new play day starts). Most of the hosts state the # 1 thing the suits look at is play time and $$/bet. If that is good it should be alright
     
  5. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is true in regards to a host reviewing your play in LV. They can see what you are actually doing during a stay and comp accordingly. But I believe that Total Rewards now uses your check out day in their computer algorithms when dishing out corporate offers. Just another way to steal what you have earned. I heard that MGM now does this as well.

    I'm sure everyone has heard about being shorted while getting rated at tables. You play for 2 hours at $50 per hand, and the pit critters log you as 1 hour and 35. This is pretty much their way to do that to slot players, who historically always had their play logged correctly by using a slot club card.
     
  6. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Why would you short someone on ADT? If you are cutting back, comp less of it, or raise prices relative to ADT. But in terms of how they log it, giving you a bad table rating, or counting an empty day is really just likely to cost you a player.

    And it is a comparative measure! Cutting an overnighter's ADT in half doesn't so much save money, instead it has your system 'prefer' a person who played less but played checkout days.

    I'm just saying, if I were designing it, I either would not count check out day (absent a non gaming purchase post check out time), or at minimum I would count it, but at a discounted impact if there is very short or no play.
     
  7. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    In an attempt to save money by not returning as much comp back to a customer. If your coin-in is $10,000 a day, you will theoretically lose $1,000 a day on the slots. Or whatever math they are using. And your comps will have you rated as a player that the casino can expect to collect $1,00.00 a day from. In turn the casino will give you a comp worth roughly a third of that back, to soften the blow of the gut punch you will be taking IE loses. 3 days X $1K expected loss per day = $3K they will plan to take from you, less a third back in comps.

    So your comps might be something like $1,000 in value after 3 days. Your comps might look like: a room, rack rated at $250.00 for 3 nights + $100 in free play + $150 in resort credit.

    Now if they count your check out day, that would cut your coin down from $30K DIV 3 = $10K to $30K DIV 4 = $7,500. So your coin-in is now chopped by a quarter. Your future offers might be more like 2 nights $50 in FP + $100 in resort credit or such.

    That's what I was getting at. The averages will always be in their favor to ding you for an extra day since the math will now rate you less.
     
  8. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Again though, if you want to save money, you just offer less for the same ADT.

    But if you measure players wrong, you give more to a guy who is going to play less based on when he played and how long he stayed, and that doesn't save you money. You potentially lose a good player at the expense of a mediocre one.

    Player 1 comes in on a 1 night stay, does 5k coin in, leaves first thing and you give him a 2.5k based ADT. Player 2 comes in on a 3 nighter with a night flight, does 2.5 k a day and gets the same, and thus the same offers and calendar rates. Player 1 is expecting better comps and goes elsewhere, and you lure in the less profitable player.

    Again, regardless of what they OFFER, it is in the casino's interest to KNOW accurately what a player is worth to them.
     
  9. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    And instead of having to completely rework the computer algorithms on who gets what, just tack on that extra day and it will reduce the calculated comps by lowering your average. Just like my examples.

    The casino still knows exactly what you actually play/are worth to them. But now they reduce your bounce backs.

    So whats in it for the casino beyond obviously giving you less in return (and saving the company money) ? They hope if you are being clocked on that checkout day, you will just keep playing since it counts anyway. Simple.


    Player 1 comes in on a 1 night stay, does 5k coin in, leaves first thing and you give him a 2.5k based ADT. Yes, I'm giving him half his actual value now, so less comps. In this example playing just 1 night will pinch more since you cant spread out that check-out day hit. They get the shittier end of this new deal.

    Player 2 comes in on a 3 nighter with a night flight, does 2.5 k a day and gets the same, and thus the same offers and calendar rates. No, player 2 is staying for 3 nights, his flight in or out doesn't matter. If we are giving him a room that night, their meter is running. If he checks in at 10AM or 10PM he is on the clock. 3 nights + checkout day = 4 day hit. $2.5K gambled over 3 real days + $0.00 on the checkout day = 4 rated days DIV $7,500 coin and he is now rated at $1875 per day and not his full value of $2500. But he does spread out the hit much more than the hit and run 1 night guys

    Player 1 is now rated at $2500 coin and player 2 is rated lower at 1875 coin. So player one should still draw better offers, but both of them will now be reduced over actual play.


    Player 1 is expecting better comps and goes elsewhere, and you lure in the less profitable player. Who says player 2 is less profitable? Everything i have ever read on casino resorts say they want people on the grounds longer. That means they are in the casino more, and potentially losing more, that means they are in your spa's or dining in your restaurants.

    This is the very same reason why many offers need you to book a room for a minimum 2 nights in order to get free play. They want you there longer.

    So player one takes the bigger hit with the added day but player one is actually less profitable to a casino. He could have booked his room, gambled his free play, and left the next day. Player two only gets his free play on day one, same as player one. But now he is milling around the casino/resort for three times as long. That's the pigeon they want to pluck. Not the stick and move player.
     
  10. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    Everything I said and have heard above is based on you staying on a comp. If you play at Paris, but stay at MGM, Paris will not take that days play and add another day to your average for future comps. But if you are on property the clock is running.

    I don't know what would happen if you checked out at 5AM and the gaming day starts at 6AM. Perhaps you will not get hit for that check-out day. I've never tried this. But if the clock starts at 6AM for a gaming day, and you are still checked into their room, even though you leave at 11AM, you are on the clock.

    This was all per my host Beverly with CET in Vegas. I'm making my own assumptions as to why, but confirmed with a host previously that you are rated on checkout day and in her own words "You might as well play then".
     
  11. zoobrew

    zoobrew High-Roller

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    I find it funny that anyone thinks that a host really knows all that is included CET's secret algorithms or that a host would say anything else but "play, play, play". Also changing a value on an algorithm is not rocket science, so what is accurate yesterday could be wrong tomorrow. For all we know the algorithm could charge a Sat. check out against your ADT, but not a Tues.
     
  12. PTSailor

    PTSailor Tourist

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    If it's anything other than ((time/date card is last swiped) - (time/date card is first swiped))/24 hours rounded up to the nearest day, I'd be truly surprised. While the casinos are certainly looking to squeeze as much out of their customer as possible without losing a significant amount of loyalty, they are also interested in accurately comparing their customers with/against one another, in other words, they want to know where to best invest their comp budget.
     
  13. RebelDiceMan

    RebelDiceMan VIP Whale

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    It will probably never be resolved satisfactorily but I would love to know the definitive answer on this question. I have been steadfastly avoiding any use of my card on check out day for a long time. Thanks for everyone's input.
     
  14. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    As long as it is the same for everyone I guess it is not a big thing. Just play what you want and you will get whatever, our comps have gone up a bit so we are happy and will just have fun.....................Rick
     
  15. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    I know hosts can be sneaky, but I find it funny that anyone would assume a host would blatantly lie to your face in an attempt to ruin your rating. After all, if they said to gamble on a short day (checkout day), and that was never going to be figured into your average, you (their player) will be rated/valued less than if they never lied to you at all.

    For what its worth, I emailed my host directly with this question. If no one wants to believe me I can take a screen grab of the email. I would just blur out her name/contact info since I did not tell her I would post our conversation publicly.

    The reply came in today when i asked if my check-out day is figured into my average. The typos are all hers LOL

    HI XXXX,





    Thank is correct, the check out day will count in the number of days for the trip. So if you have technically a two night stay and check out on the third day, it will show as a 3 day trip. Hope this info helps. Thanks and let me know if you have any questions.





    Best Wishes,
     
  16. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Checking out and using your card is using your card.
     
  17. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    The bigger question here Stress if if checking out and not using your card is the same as using your card. IE does CET use your checkout day into your average. For years everyone knew not to put your card in a machine, use it to get a discount on a coke in the gift shop ETC on your checkout day. Doing so would hurt your average.

    I had several hosts from either Total Rewards or MLife tell me that thety now treat your checkout day into your average. So NOT playing something on checkout hurts your trip totals.

    Here is another reply I got last night from an Executive Casino Host with CET. You check in, you are on the clock even on the day you check out. As long as you are on property, in a room where they know your club number. Many moons ago it used to be card to card. The moment you put your card in a machine you are active. If you dont on your last day, it did not hurt your average. But now the clock runs on the day you check in thru the day you check out.

    Normally if I was staying on a 2 night comp I'd play day 1 + day 2 and hop a flight home after checking out the 3rd morning. Now log that checkout day as no play and that brings down your trip totals (and average)

    Hi XXXX,





    I am the host that is taking Bev’s place here at the LINQ. Allison is correct.





    Example: you check in at 6PM on March 15th you check out at 10 AM on March 17th. The clock for comp usage and play average starts when you check in, not when you start play. So even though it was only 2 nights, the comps run for 3 days. The average on that play would be for 3 days.
     
  18. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Ugh. That is a shit way to do it.
     
  19. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED The biggest Degenerate on VMB

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    Cosmo does it on a per trip basis (I thought MLife did this too)..so it doesn't matter if you do or don't play on check-out day it's still counting. (and in that regard, a shorter "trip" will hurt you, even if it's just drop-in play)
     
  20. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

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    Mlife most certainly does this as well. Not sure when either club started doing it, but I'm pretty sure its been this way for a couple years now.

    In my cut and pasted replies from the CET hosts previously, the one made mention to an Allison. She is one of my Mlife hosts. I sent the CET host the email I had from my Mlife host and asked if it worked the same way with them. And she replied yes.

    So it looks like Cosmo, CET & MGM all ding you on check out day if you dont play. For fun, I'll shoot an email to my host at ti and see what she says.
     
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