Casino Surveys

Thanks for posting. Strip centric article, but interesting read and also the comments in this thread.

 

I know people that pick a resort based on theme, since they love themes. I do not know many people that wont pick a resort based on theme, because they hate themes. Those people might have a preference based on dining options, rooms, casino or pool. But I never heard anyone say "I wont stay at Paris because I hate Parisians" or "Rome is so lame, I hate CP".

The problems is not that neutral or "modern office type" casinos exist. The problem (for some) is that only neutral or "modern office type" casinos are being built. And those old themed ones are now being turned into neutral or "modern office type" casinos as well. The reason why themes became such a big deal was to get people in the door. See Egypt! See New York! See Italy! See New Orleans! And that was a big draw for international tourists. Like it or not, it is a very American concept.

Now I cant tell if I'm sitting in Planet Ho or Cosmo playing. Or when I move from Wynn to the Palazzo. The casinos are now pretty much the same. No need to "See it All" any more. When all of it is really just more of the same. Go back 25 years ago and every single casino had their own identity. Now, not so much. Obviously I know I'm wrong in liking Themes. If i was right, we would still have them LOL

 

With the explosion of cell phones/internet do people really need/want to "see" places when they can have all that in the palm of their hand. I like themes, but from a business point having the wrong or out dated theme/branding is a very expensive mistake. Think of all your childhood food characters that are no longer around or had to take a multi-year break, lot harder to do with a building, to become retro again. You could say that many casino do have new themes, it is luxury, unfortunately mass production luxury is boring.

 

Absolutely! If just looking at pictures of Vegas were the same as being in Vegas, why would anyone go? I watch slot videos on youtube, that doesn't scratch my itch. That makes me want to gamble! The great thing about all of those Vegas themes, they never get old or go out of date. Ancient Rome (CP), Egypt (Luxor), Medieval England (Excal), The Romance of Italy (Venetian), 1800's France (Paris) 1920's New York (NY NY) ETC. The things that do go out of date are Modern Decor. It is only Modern in the present time, then that becomes outdated. That is why the Palazzo had to update their casino already. It was modern.... 10 years ago. And those places without a theme stay looking boring and generic forever, Like Harrah's or Bally's.

10 years from now they will be ripping out the carpet and redoing Park MGM. Mark my words. That is filled with "Hip" stuff, by today's standards. Soon it will be like buying a house built in the late 90's. You'll be looking at the wood cabinets in the kitchen, the black appliances with tiled counter tops and the polished brass hardware and think "Wow, thats old school"

 

I skimmed through and i see a lot blaming greed. I'll take it a step further. They have taken the ball out of the hands of marketers, salespeople, hosts and gamblers. They trust a bunch of indirect data that says they should move toward lodging and entertainment and pivot away from gambling. They displaced the marketers with finance and made it a strict numbers game that they don't exactly get because their isn't a lot of other business models that sell air as a risk/reward system.

imho.

 

So I get that they (casinos) are crunching the numbers, and maybe the numbers are pointing them (the bean counters/casino execs) towards a certain direction.

On paper it probably all looks like it (the current direction) should work out for them.
Funny thing is, PEOPLE require more than just raw data/numbers when they decide to part with their money.

People attach emotions to the action of spending money.
Some people also feel they need to assign "value" to the process of their spending as well.
Like many others have said over and over.....there is a tipping point to the value of a commodity.

Maybe that's the part they (casinos) need to still figure out.

 

Yup, and on paper the idea worked. The sheep (us) didn't figure it out fast enough. Those that did, left or played elsewhere. Or at the very least came to Vegas less. And when that happened, marketing had people lined up to take their place. Now those sheep, sorry, those players figured it out and the list that marketing had got smaller and smaller. No replacement players on their roster down the wrung to come in and play at the same level.

How did the casinos respond? They started trying to cannibalize each other. Offer matches, players club level matches accelerated tier earning promotions to move you up the ladder in their chain faster ETC.

But here is were the sheep rose up. They where NEVER going to double their gambling spending or double their visits to support 2 clubs due to these offers. They would play one or the other. And in many cases, play one against the other.

Mlife poaches a player and CET does the same. The net results are zero. If anything, the new players takes advantage of the new perks and upfront comps and goes back to the old club. Which further hurts the casinos financials

And NOW the casinos are looking around and thinking "What just happened"?

 

I've done all that except the host. I've talked about my bad experience and it was deaf ears. I've done the comment card with phone# and e-mail to talk about it, zero. Talked to management as they turned the tables onto me so do they care?

 

Bad news, once management figures out that there are no new gamblers the old ones are going to have to pay more to be able to gamble. Once an industry moves from growth to cash cow and then cannibal, inflation really kicks in. Look at the cigarette industry, the cable industry, the college industry. In the gambling industry inflation shows up in bad rules, less comps and more fees.

Prices for Cigarettes, 2000-2018 ($5)
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, prices for cigarettes were 170.09% higher in 2018 versus 2000 (a $8.50 difference in value).

Between 2000 and 2018: Cigarettes experienced an average inflation rate of 5.68% per year. This rate of change indicates significant inflation. In other words, cigarettes costing $5 in the year 2000 would cost $13.50 in 2018 for an equivalent purchase. Compared to the overall inflation rate of 2.11% during this same period, inflation for cigarettes was significantly higher.

 

While I wholeheartedly agree in spirit, lets not look at tobacco increases. In February 2000 the ground breaking Big Tobacco lawsuit won by a former smoker in the state of California against Philip Morris for over $50MIL. All the while 40 other states sued "Big Tobacco" A few years later, RY Reynolds alone had $300MIL in won lawsuits against them. All of this eventually lead to the the tobacco industry agreeing to pay $206BIL to settle all the state cases and shield them from further litigation. Forcing them to sell the same product for money money to make up the lost revenue due to these lawsuits.

Add in all the new and increased taxes city, county and states slapped on in the following years to offset health costs and to get people to stop buying, and you have your $13.50 a pack price in some places. Not really the same thing, but I like what you are thinking!

As fewer gamblers gamble, those ones left behind are supposed to make up for the declining revenue. And that means shit rules on table games, higher holds on slots and fewer comps. I worked for a Union shop. The shop dues were $500 a month. We had 50 people. Everyone was docked $10 for their dues. After the resi crash in 2008, we were down to 14 people. Dues didn't drop, we just all had to pay $35 each instead. Same concept.

 

I got one. I told them it's fees and bad gambling. Mine was from CET and I don't know what kind of player I am to them.

I get suites and freeplay at Cosmo, I get free calendar rooms at CET for most places besides Caesars, if I want an offer with $20 in freeplay, I have to pay $100 for my room.

After my March trip some dude from CET emailed me to say he is some kind of 'host' for people who spend most of their money on shows instead of gambling. (we had bought a VIP table for Lionel Richie for big money and then they charged through the roof for drinks and kicked us out when we lagged behind waiting for the room to clear a little after the show). I laughed and laughed. Wrote a bunch of snarky replies that I never sent.
I stayed and played with them 3 years ago at Caesar's and it was terrible. The customer service from one end to the other was bad. That isn't someone having a bad day, that's management. So I have mostly avoided playing there. I usually drop $20 in a machine with my card so they know I was in Vegas in didn't stay with them or gamble with them.
I doubt thats how they will read that data, (obviously they didn't I guess haha), but maybe one day a lightbulb will go off. I dunno. If I ever wanted to stay with them again, I'd worry about how it affects my offers, but I really don't.

Mostly it's hitting the tipping point for me. The fees, the high prices, my coin in has dropped in half and my budget has gone up.
It's almost at the point where I should just stay home and gamble. Everything is the same there. Mini bar prices are ridiculous. Going to get supplies at the drug store should be a thing for the very frugal, not everyone. A can of Pepsi was $6 in my minibar at Cosmo! Come on already. $3 is a hit, but I will take it. $6 is robbery. We want to go to Vegas and throw some money around, but they aren't happy with that. They want to wring us out until there is nothing left. It doesn't feel good and I don't even have the fun slot wins to make me feel like the entertainment value is there.
When it tips over to more annoyed about all these little things adding up from VEGAS!!!! I'll be done. It's getting close.


Also 24 hours until VEGAS!!!!! WOOOOOOO.

 

I will most likely continue to visit Vegas.
I go to NON VEGAS locales way more than I used to.

I have changed my habits as a consumer as I've aged.
Less addictive behaviors and more purpose/goal driven travel.

They can raise Vegas prices all they want.
I'll still go.
(Just not as often, for as long or to the same properties as in the past.)
I don't care about room offers, loyalty cards, credits or tiers. AT ALL.
Nothing can convince me to spend more than my budgeted amount.
I'm not the sheep I once was!

 

I received the survey and answered it reasonably and honestly.

I mentioned that I'm Diamond and always managed to get comped rooms and don't have to pay resort fees or parking. But that I know many people who do pay those fees and have cut back on visits or discontinued them altogether. I also mentioned that if we had to pay for rooms and resort fees and parking due to reduced comps and offers that we would probably stop coming. Which is true.

I also mentioned that the cost of simple food and beverages were mostly overpriced and at the gouge stage.

I said 6-5 bj was unplayable and that there are better payouts on carny games at off-strip properties. I complained that slot payback percentages were set too low and that vp paytables need to be improved. I also told them that I realize they are in business to make a profit and that I don't expect to leave Vegas a winner most of the time, nor do I expect 99% slot paybacks and all full-pay vp. But my entertainment is gambling. And the more action I get for my money, the more entertained I am and the more I'd be back. I asked them to place an emphasis on the gambler again, treat them fair and make them feel valued.

I also lamented the demise of the 24 hour sit-down coffee shop most properties used to have, with some late night specials and good values all day.

And I told them that I would like to see longer, evening hours at the pools, as well as most days and pool hours being for hotel guests only.

I hope most people who respond to the survey aren't just bitching and moaning about fees and demanding full pay vp. I hope they're taking the time to give some thoughtful answers and come across as understanding that CET is in business to profit. Because just the fact they are sending out this survey tells me they are open to some positive change in favor of the Vegas visitors.

I miss the themes too. They made Vegas a lot more interesting and special. Every time you went and a new themed property had opened, you had to check it out! Now? I've never set foot in City Center. I've never set foot in Encore. I've never set foot in Cosmo(although in Cosmo's case, it's maybe a little more because I'd want to set aside time and some bankroll to seed the joint). I didn't feel any need to go see a new hotel when I lived in Chicago. And I don't feel the need to go see a new hotel that opens in Phoenix now that I live here. Sure, they might be nice and modern just like CC and Encore. But that's a dime a dozen in big cities. Nothing to see there.

A mob themed casino? I'm in!

 

I'm probably the least likely to complain about Vegas being more expensive with the "show me the money" attitude nowadays with the money grabbing pick pockets courtesy of Caesars, MGM, Venetian, Wynn, Boyd, etc.

I do surveys every day to load up my RC's, which is part of the reason why Vegas to me is so inexpensive.

I took the Caesars survey and answered every question, but at the end when it says what would you change to increase your trips to Vegas (or something to that affect), i put get rid of resort fees and parking fees.
I also commented on going back to making resort fees optional if you don't want to get rid of them.
I mentioned parking fees only for you guys (i don't use a car in Vegas), but i know that parking fees are important to you so i added that.
We are on the same team...........LOL.

 

Why not change? I mean if the business model worked for 50+ years, why keep it the same?

 

You think the business model stayed the same for 50+ years?

 

This forum is small potatoes in the grand scheme of things for them don’t fool yourselves. Also our types are not their target. They prefer a way less educated player.

 

They prefer people that will spend.

 

CET response.. "But none of that makes our stockholder and stakeholders more money, which is actually what we are in business to do. Thank you for your support."