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Cashing ticket by mail & IRS implications

Discussion in 'The Sports Book' started by Coachmike615, Apr 9, 2018.

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  1. Coachmike615

    Coachmike615 Tourist

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    Scored on Patrick Reed at 50-1. $200 Ticket was purchased in March and is worth $10,200. Am I correct in assuming 25-28% will be withheld for my dear Uncle Sam?
    Is it possible to do this by mail? Or must I be present to provide identification? I live in PA and it’s a challenge to get away. I realize this is a wonderful problem to have.
    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  2. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

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    I think you are ok. In believe the trigger is 300:1 on a bet whether table or sports. You'LL find out here though.
     
    Ho-Ho-Hum
  3. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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  4. jamesxnj

    jamesxnj VIP Whale

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    Very Nice hit !..You have like 6 months to cash it so plan a quick trip maybe? Otherwise you have to take all the precautions mailing it in..and then it takes awhile...there are no updates on progress etc..You wait until the check comes in the mail.And it always does.Nice problem to have indeed.
     
  5. Lord Suspect

    Lord Suspect Low-Roller

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    I'd take a quick trip for such a large dollar amount. Who knows you may be able to place another $200 money ball winner. Think ST Louis when they were 999 to 1.
     
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  6. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Yep - that is what I would do. Even if only a few days - or day. Cheap insurance vs ticket getting "lost".
     
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  7. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    First off, you need to photo copy and keep that ticket in case it gets lost so they can look it up in case you lose the original. If I were you, I'm not sure I'd mail it - I actually would try to take it in person.

    I don't think they are going to withhold based upon my understanding of Vegas's policies. I don't know your personal tax situation, but if you feel that you are going to be underpaid, you can always make an estimated tax payment.

    And, while I don't think you're going to get a W-2G, for a $10,000 payout they are legally required to file a currency transaction report. You don't want to have to explain to the IRS why you are the subject of a CTR detailing a payment from a casino to you without documentation. FYI. Also, I wonder if this has implications for your ability to cash the ticket by mail - they may need your SSN in order to send you the money because they want to include that in the CTR. If I were you, I'd call the sports book before I attempted to mail a ticket of that size.
     
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  8. Coachmike615

    Coachmike615 Tourist

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    Thanks for the detailed response Rumor. I’ve never heard of CTR until you mentioned it. Photocopies have been made, and will be calling the book today. My preference is to mail it if at all possible. If I make even a short trip, it is likely I wouldn’t bring enough of it home!
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  9. vegasdev

    vegasdev VIP Whale

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    I too, have a winning Reed ticket, on a smaller scale. I placed a bet for my brother on April 03, the odds had come down by then and I got Reed at 40 to 1. a $10 bet pays $400. I will cash it when I am back in Vegas first week of May.
    I told my brother he could mail it or wait, he said wait. I would have no problem mailing a ticket for that amount. for your ticket of $10,200, I would fly out and cash it in person. I would watch for some bargain airfare to pop up and jump on it, if only for 2 or 3 nights. even at a bargain, you may not have the flexibility. if that is the case, perhaps someone you know and trust could take the short trip for you and cash the ticket. keep us posted.

    and most of all CONGRAT$ :woot:
     
  10. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

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    take a cheap one airline and an amount of cash you want to lose. Get the payout in a check. Have fun. Go home without getting a room. Good luck.
     
    Ho-Ho-Hum
  11. remmerde

    remmerde VMB's Resident Cigar Sommelier

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    Pfft, a lot overly paranoid answers here...

    If you're inclined to go to Vegas soon anyway, then sure, take it yourself. But there's no problem mailing in the ticket via registered mail. *Registered* mail (not certified). Should only cost $40 or so with $10k insurance. If you send something by registered mail, it *will* get to the destination. USPS Registered Mail is serious stuff, it travels in locked containers the whole way and requires a possession log. Probably more secure than carrying it yourself.
     
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  12. vegasdev

    vegasdev VIP Whale

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    yeah yeah, that's all good. but you see, us VMBers love a reason to return to Vegas ASAP, and a 10K winning sports bet ticket sounds like good justification.
    but you are correct, if the OP is unable to get away even for a day or two, I think it is safe to mail it.
     
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  13. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike VIP Whale

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    it is for sure 300-1 on horse racing. i can vouch for that...
     
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  14. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate High-rolling diner. Low-rolling gambler.

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    I'm speaking as a Canadian who isn't familiar with how it works in the US. But CTRs only apply to cash or cash-like transactions, don't they? I have a very hard time believing that they apply to cheque payments. Otherwise, you'd need to fill out a CTR for any car/house/aircraft purchase, which just isn't realistic.

    ---

    Speaking to the OP's situation in a broad sense, you're essentially stuck with two options here, each with its own pros and cons...

    1. Redeem the ticket by registered mail

    Pros:
    - Not especially time-consuming.
    - Relatively low cost for postage and insurance.
    - Least complex course of action if it goes according to plan. You send the ticket, they send the cheque.

    Cons:
    - Possibility of loss can create drama with investigations, insurance, and possibly a legal battle
    - Possibility of loss can also create anxiety during this process for the OP
    - By providing any information the sportsbook may need to process the redemption in this way, OP exposes themselves to the possibility of IRS reporting

    2. Go to Las Vegas and redeem the ticket in person

    Pros:
    - Another excuse to go to Vegas, of course :)
    - Virtually zero possibility of loss (barring robbery or misplacement)
    - Possible option to redeem ticket in a way that does not trigger CTR or W-2G
    - Reduced or zero anxiety relating to loss or uncertainty of easy redemption

    Cons:
    - Higher cost (flight, hotel, etc.)
    - More time-consuming (compared to simply mailing the ticket)
    - May not have any net benefit if CTR/W-2G might be triggered anyway
    - If redeemed for cash, OP becomes a robbery target, or may be tempted to gamble more than they normally would with the cash


    The first thing that comes to my mind here is that if the OP takes the ticket to the sportsbook in Vegas, can they not simply redeem the ticket in a "split" way, where they place a $1,200 bet on a sure thing, and take the remaining $9,000 in cash? Then if the "sure thing" bet wins, collect on it 24 hours later so that a total of $10k was not exchanged in a single day.

    Anyway, as you can see, there are pros and cons to both. Whichever route you go, there is still the possibility that you might be exposed to IRS/FinCEN reporting requirements. So I think that what it comes down to the most is whether or not you want to go to Vegas again - as that is the most significant variable in terms of both time and money.

    Whatever you do, though, do not call the sportsbook and ask them anything like "can I avoid getting a W-2G by doing ______?". That will get you a visit from some folks you don't want to meet :poke:
     
    NFR trip. Longhorn, Hooters, Tahoe, The Cal, Rio, ElCo.
  15. vegasdev

    vegasdev VIP Whale

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    and one more thing if it has not already been mentioned. I am sure the OP as already done this.
    TAKE A PICTURE OF THE TICKET!
    they can get lost, stolen, faded, wet and so on.
    and while it is tempting to celebrate your big win with others by sharing the photo, I would not put it out there in the crazy internet universe until you have collected your winnings. better safe than sorry.
     
  16. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    This is not about W2-Gs, this is about CTRs. You are conflating the two. Cashing a sports bet like this does not create a W2-G. Trying to structure transactions to avoid one is a bad idea
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  17. Village Idiot

    Village Idiot Tourist

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    What about going within the cash out time frame to redeem the winnings, but before taking the money, making a couple of $200 future bets (sounds like you are good at picking golf) and receive the $9800. Keep it up, you might be even able to retire.

    Congrats on the pick.
     
  18. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    if you take 9800 they're still going to take your ID and SSN, and watch to see if you make ANY other cashouts that put you over 10000. It's a great way to create the potential for them to file a suspicious activity report in addition to a CTR

    People, go try to cash $7,000 at a cage. They are going to get your ID or they already have it on file. They start watching you like a hawk way before 10k
     
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  19. Coachmike615

    Coachmike615 Tourist

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    Just got off the phone with the book. Rumor has it all figured out and is spot on with his comments.
    This payout does not create a W2-G, but does create a CTR. (And here I thought CTR only meant click-through rate!)
    The representative I spoke to wanted to make sure all of my information on my MLife account was accurate and current.
    I’m about 90% sure I’m going to use the mail-in route. 3 kids + 2 dogs makes it too difficult to get away. Of course I will use Registered mail and insure the package for $10,200. I must also include a photocopy of my ss#, drivers license, and MLife card. And I was told I will receive a check in 4-6 weeks.
    Thanks all for your help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
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  20. spicole

    spicole No shirt, no shoes... NO DICE!

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    CTRs can apply to both cash and cash instruments i.e. checks. YOU don't fill out a CTR form but the casino does. In reality THIS MEANS NOTHING FOR YOU, including any sort of tax liability. (Of course, you are required by law to report any gambling wins/losses. :poke:) Repeat, there is no reason for you to fear or try to avoid a CTR.

    Splitting cash outs to avoid CTRs, on the other hand, is structuring... which is bad. The casino will then trigger a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) which could indicate money laundering or tax evasion.

    In summary:
    Listen to The Rumor, he is correct
    Don't take US tax advice from a Canadian who is not familiar with IRS requirements in the US :poke::poke::poke:
    Never worry about a CTR
    Never try to structure payouts, SARs are bad
    Mailing in winning sports book tickets is easy and secure
    Calling the book was a good decision for a ticket of this magnitude, including your Mlife information helps the book out and will ensure a speedy and secure payout
    $10,200 wins are the perfect reason to visit Vegas in person :D
     
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