1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Bowl Athletes Pulling Out. Questions.

Discussion in 'The Sports Book' started by Camp Rusty, Dec 19, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Camp Rusty

    Camp Rusty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    42
    Heynow Bettors......

    I had a couple thoughts and questions regarding this, Stanford's McCaffery(sp) being the latest big name to skip a bowl to prepare for the draft. Whether I agree or disagree with this move, this seems to me to leave open some big holes in the integrity of the games.

    My cynical mind went to placing bets on the opposing team when the bowl's point line is set, then having a pivotal player pull out changing the line significantly. Maybe it is not any different than an injury occuring during a practice leading up to a game......but somehow to me this seems premeditated, almost like point shaving.

    This made me question whether you could take your betting ticket back and ask for your money back. Not likely I'm sure, but again, this just seems to me to be different than an injury, or I suppose a player suspension.

    So........any thoughts from those more knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Books ?
     
  2. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,130
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    How exactly does one prepare for the draft by skipping what is one of the biggest games of their collegiate career. Not someone I'd want in my foxhole.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 5
  3. Camp Rusty

    Camp Rusty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    42
    A double edged sword perhaps.

    You eliminate the possibility of a career ending injury in your final college game......

    ......but you show yourself to be not a team player.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Messages:
    2,130
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    The best pros are the guys with the biggest hearts. Look at Old Man Brady.
     
  5. ken2v

    ken2v The Masque of the Red Death

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    25,956
    Location:
    America's most valuable agricultural expanse
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    And the Pro Bowl "competition" means what?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Camp Rusty

    Camp Rusty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    42
    I must admit I have never understood the playing of the Pro Bowl........it is a great honor to be selected I am sure, but another game to get physically beat up with zero meaning seems like a lot of work. But.....aren't there player bonuses based on being selected to the Pro Bowl ?

    Basketball, baseball, hockey all pro games seem like they might be a little more fun, though hockey can be brutal.

    Golf, would the Ryder Cup be the all pro game there ? That would be an honor to be chosen,as well as probably a ton of fun to compete in.
     
  7. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    10,016
    Location:
    Boston
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    26
    Now that college football has the playoff system, none of the other bowl games mean shit, you'd have to be nuts to be a top level player and play for free for 3 or 4 years and then risk it for one meaningless game. It doesn't affect the integrity of those games, but it sure messes with the betting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. ken2v

    ken2v The Masque of the Red Death

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    25,956
    Location:
    America's most valuable agricultural expanse
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    Exactly. These guys need to "man up" like a "real pro" when the pros mail it in (while being paid)???

    It is amazing in an individual game that the Ryder Cup carries such weight. It's cool.
     
  9. Tahoejoe2

    Tahoejoe2 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,232
    Location:
    ca
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    I believe the average life span of an NFL career is 4/5 years. Do you want to risk a huge 4 year pay day? I'll "man up" after I get paid. I can do more charity work after the 4 year payday.
     
    Super Bowl baby
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. srudude87

    srudude87 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2013
    Messages:
    250
    Location:
    Altoona, PA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    I always say look at last year's OSU/ Notre Dame game. Joey Bosa got ejected and went 3rd pick to the Chargers. Jaylon Smith stayed in the game, gets a career threatening knee injury, falls to 2nd round and who knows if he'll play again.
     
  11. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,378
    Location:
    Austin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    67
    I think it's bs. The schools "invest" in those players. They have paid them to play (scholarships) and they should get a return on that investment. Stanford will sell less tickets to that bowl game because of this. Stanford might have a worse all time bowl results record because of this. Stanford might finish lower in the final rankings because of this. There are a LOT of "meaningless" games played in college football. If players start refusing to play in meaningless games there won't be any football played. What is college football about? Just bragging rights really. When you get down to it, who cares if a Kansas beats a Vanderbilt? The students and alumni of those schools, that's who. "We suck but at least we are better than Vanderbilt."

    Schools need to start addressing this in scholarship agreements/contracts.

    Don't get me started on how it does screw up bets. I would be livid if I put a big bet on Stanford thinking, "Hell, McCaffery can beat North Carolina by himself!"
     
  12. jacmrose

    jacmrose Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    These final bowl games exist only to make money for the networks. The coaches get paid, the league gets paid, CBS gets paid. The only people not getting paid are the athletes. Christian McCaffery is going to be a first round pick and will finally have the opportunity to get paid. Why would he risk his pay day just so everyone around him could get theirs? I agree that you could be letting your teammates down but if I was a torn ACL away from missing out on a 20 million contract, I'd be wrapped in bubble wrap.
     
  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    13,824
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Well, to answer the original question, you cannot take your ticket to the book and ask for a refund. And its nothing like point shaving, so I would avoid that comparison
     
  14. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    9,237
    Location:
    Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    65
    Those saying the schools provide scholarships I would add there seems little monitoring of the graduation plan and more toward the eligibility requirements to play. Consider the graduation rates for universities across the board. Do you think mcCaffery is going to attend classes spring semester as he gets ready for the draft? I would not think so but could be wrong.
    Remember the coverage Andrew Luck got when skipping the "voluntary" team workouts to go back to finish classes for his degree at Stanford? He got all that attention because it was so rare. Some go back and finish years later and get similar coverage.
    There is little focus on diplomas by either the networks or the NCAA. Back in mid 70's it was 15$ a class hour (instate in Texas) for tuition plus the add ons. There was a 15$ athletic fee per semester. You could go to a game in the student section with a little networking through other students / bulletin boards on a students budget or through a lottery if a BIG game (OU/A&M).
    Now the school has 100k+ seating and IF the average price per ticket was 100$ (low balling here) that's over 10 million at the gate; + concessions, parking, alumni / booster contributions AND television $'s for broadcasting the games.
    Other teams (colleges) are similarly designed. Then the bowl game (non championship) comes along which involves more $'s.
    Maybe the school could buy a one game insurance policy on the players health for 100 million $'s and when the player refuses to play (so as to not jeopardize his future income) we could say WTF?
    But get mad at the athlete/student for making a choice seems narrow minded. Just my opinion.
     
    It can’t be a rodeo without the bull
    This here table isn’t a 5$ table; Pilgrim ~~
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Camp Rusty

    Camp Rusty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    42
    Point shaving is probably the wrong term, my bad.

    The scenario I had in my head was someone close to a pivotal athlete with some serious money spreads a bunch of bets around against that pivotal athlete's school.

    The line is set, the athlete withdraws, in this case a viable out prepping for the draft, and whether or not the line moves the games outcome will likely change somewhat. Just enough ?

    Like I said, I am cynical SOB, but I guess I don't recall this scenario from the past.

    I figured that was the answer on the money back.

    I would assume that if Minnesota would have boycotted vs. WSU that would have voided that ticket.

    Weird year in the bowls to me.
     
  16. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    6,389
    Location:
    Chicago South Suburbs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    I think it would have to be more dramatic that one or two players skipping for the books to address it. But to a sportsbook, this is probably more akin to the star player missing the bowl due to an injury incurred during practice.

    I have mixed emotions about players skipping the bowl games. I understand why a player doesn't want to risk injury but why play the whole season and miss this one game? On the converse, everyone is pushing for a payday for games no one wanted to see even before the playoff system started. It's time to prune the bowl schedule so the games outside of the playoffs have more meaning.
     
  17. ken2v

    ken2v The Masque of the Red Death

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    25,956
    Location:
    America's most valuable agricultural expanse
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    I put the needs or interests of the players, fans and schools far above any potential outfall to gamblers.

    The bottom line is that this horse bolted long ago, and it isn't coming back. For the majority of its life, D-1 football had the most important regular season schedule in team sports. The proliferation in "silly" bowl games didn't do that in. The BCS and then particularly the playoffs did that in. (Super-sized conferences, too.) I miss the consensus -- sometimes mythical -- national champion debates. I think the game is better when a team plays every other team in its conference. I don't really care that in other sports wild card provisions have proven to benefit teams that catch fire late or later in the regular season. Just the way I'm wired. The regular season mattered. Now some years you don't even have to win your conference to pass some vanity test and make the so-called playoffs.

    As for the other matter, when administrators, boosters and coaches are held more fully accountable, then we can start being critical of these kids.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. deansrobinson

    deansrobinson VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    3,786
    Location:
    Tampa
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Once upon a time bowl games had value. Now, it's just one more opportunity to get injured before draft / combine season. Unless you're in one of the playoff or NYD bowls, the risk may be greater than the reward (Yah! We beat a 6-6 team in the Toro Mower and Lawn Furniture Bowl!)

    http://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/article/McCaffrey-exposes-college-football-s-bogus-bowl-10806938.php

    "
    Good for you, Christian McCaffrey. College football, and its bogus bowl system, need a jolt.

    Stanford’s All-America running back announced Monday that he won’t play in the Sun Bowl on Dec. 30, saying he needs to prepare for the NFL draft. His Cardinal teammates will take on the University of North Carolina, down in El Paso, Texas, without one of the best players in the game. I’m guessing they’re none too happy about that.

    Some say it’s a selfish move by a star player, giving up on his teammates in favor of NFL riches. I say it makes perfect sense. And more players will follow.

    McCaffrey’s decision exposes the absurdity of meaningless bowl games. Let’s hope it also sheds light on an outdated system that benefits business, and little else. As things stand, only two bowl games matter. The rest are exhibitions.

    That’s right, of the 41 bowl games to be played this holiday season, 39 are unnecessary. Take your pick. Appalachian State against Toledo in the Raycom Media Camellia Bowl? LSU and Louisville in the Buffalo Wild Wings Citrus Bowl? How about BYU facing Wyoming in the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl?"
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Camp Rusty

    Camp Rusty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,230
    Location:
    Orcas Island
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    42
    I read the other day 38 of the 41 bowls are on a Disney owned channel.

    With Disney as a major player in entertainment stocks the likelihood of any sort of reduction in bowl games is remote as long as they are making Disney money.

    I'm a sucker, I watch as many as I can so I guess I am encouraging the bowl growth.
     
  20. ken2v

    ken2v The Masque of the Red Death

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Messages:
    25,956
    Location:
    America's most valuable agricultural expanse
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    I watch a lot of bowl games, too. Sadly some are loss-leaders for the schools, and there are too may Participation Ribbon and Gold Star bowls. But I like CFB.

    Is USC-Penn State a soiled Rose Bowl? To some degree since the season and the bowl system were sacrificed to a still-as-imperfect path to a national championship. Sadly, the only "corrective" is more conference realignment and expansion to x teams.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.