bng804's Vegas Adventures (Sept. 26-30) (Long)

Preface

Ok, the players of this story are Myself (B), my wife (T), brother in law (BIL), sister in law (SIL) and my 18 year old son and his friend (J & D). BIL and SIL were Vegas virgins that we finally talked into coming with us so they could see why we are always talking about Vegas. J & D were also virgins, but they were left to their own devices most of the time, hitting up all the under 21 friendly attractions in town. We hooked them up with bus passes and let them explore on their own, so they won't be a big part of this report. As an aside, they had a good time, but I really think Las Vegas is just a tease for those aged 18-20. I'll have to take him back once he turns 21.

T and I are pretty much low rollers, especially on this trip, as we were funding the expenses for all six people. We budgeted around a $200 each for our gambling bankroll this trip. I play blackjack, roulette, vp, and the occasional slot. T is a slot-o-holic that plays some occasional vp. The plan this trip was to maximize our bankroll using the American Casino Guide coupons for matchplays, slot play, and anything else that looked like a deal.


Day 1

Departure day finally arrived and another pilgrimage to mecca was under way. BIL and SIL picked T and I up from the house for the 1.5 hour drive to OKC. I don't understand why OKC is consistently so much cheaper to fly out of than Tulsa. I work at TUL. It's so much closer to us, plus I park for free in the employee lot, but there is no way I am paying 75 bucks more per person for airfare- especially when I am footing the bill for 6 people. I will take the extra $450 and use it in my bankroll.

So off to the airport we go. Its a relatively painless drive with everybody hyped up about getting to Las Vegas. We arrived really early. The flight didn't depart until 7 pm, but being excited about leaving, we got tired of sitting around the house and hit the road a couple hours earlier than really necessary. Once at the airport, we parked the car in the back forty shuttle lot and headed to the terminal.



Man, there is only so much you can do in the OKC airport. Unlike most airports these days, there is a smoking lounge. T and I don't normally smoke, but we do when in Las Vegas. So we hung out and smoked a few in the smoke hole that resembled a prison holding cell. I am not sure if the chairs and walls were supposed to be yellow or if the were just stained from years of smoke – it was pretty scary. After eating and screwing around for what seemed like forever, it was finally time to board and get the hell outta dodge.



The flight on Southwest was adequate as usual. Nonstop both ways, on time, with A boarding passes. I had collected a bunch of Southwest drink coupons that I passed to out to our group after takeoff and we were all nice and lubed up by the time we touched down at McCarran.

I love the sights and sounds of LAS. There is no better feeling in the world then getting off the plane and hearing that familiar ding of the slots and seeing the huge signs advertising the various shows and attractions. Its a great pump up for the action to come. I grabbed T by her pretty blond hair and drug her kicking and screaming past the slot machines to keep her from dropping coins before we even got out of the airport.

Once we got to baggage claim, our favorite limo driver, Steve with Presidential, was there holding a sign with my name on it. Our luggage popped out quickly enough and we were off to the limo. We all smoked a quick cig, while Steve hooked up the girls with their roses, and then we piled in the super stretch and proceeded to pound back a couple of bottles of that el cheapo complimentary champagne.



Our destination for the night is a leisurely cruise up the strip so the Vegas virgins could see the sights of the strip, and ending at our hotel for one night - the Vegas Club. We all had a good laugh when Steve informed us that in all his years of driving a limo that he didn't think he had ever dropped anyone at the Vegas Club. Hell yeah, we are some trendsetters slummin' it at the VC in style! It was an enjoyable ride and we arrived at the Vegas Club right at an hour after landing. I slipped Steve $25 for his hospitality and we proceeded to the completely empty check in desk to arrange for our luxurious accommodations.

Me and T's room was comped from our previous high rollin' at the Plaza. I am not really sure how as I probably haven't gambled more than a hundred bucks there, but hey, free is good. The other 2 rooms were prepaid through Travelocity using a coupon I found somewhere online. I think we ended up paying something like 17 bucks a room.

The check in clerk was efficient enough and they had no problem with my request for all the rooms to be in the North tower. I had been informed when I made my reservation that a $50 deposit was required for each room. I'm not sure what the point of that is when I am pretty sure that the entire contents of the VC rooms aren't worth 50 bucks, but I digress. Anyway, I peeled of a couple of hundys as there is no way I am letting them put a hold on my credit card. Besides, we are only staying one night so I will be recouping that part of my bankroll in the morning at checkout.

Up to the north tower elevators we go. The elevators are at the back of the lounge and there was an R& B act jamming on stage as we rolled our luggage by a few dancing tourists. Our accommodations at the VC really weren't all that bad. Somehow we ended up with 2 queens instead of a king, but we were too lazy to go back down and get it fixed – we didn't have much time downtown and were ready to hit Fremont. Otherwise, everything was clean enough, and it would serve it's one night purpose just fine. I've certainly stayed in much worse rooms that cost way more. The VC works just fine for sleeping and showering.

We met up with BIL and SIL downstairs and sent J&D out to go explore. Out the side door of the VC and we headed to the Four Queens. Picked up our players cards at the players club along with a voucher for buy one entre get one free from the ACG coupons and headed up to Magnolia's Veranda, as we were all starving. The service was a bit slow, but good cafe type food as usual. Although I thought for a minute our waiter was gonna throw us degenerates out when SIL tried to blow her straw wrapper at us in the next booth over and it accidentally flew into somebody else's plate that the waiter was carrying when he came around the corner at the same time. Nice job sis, lol.

After Magnolia's, it was time for some gambling. Nothing was really calling out to us at the Four Queens, so walked over to Binion's. It's sad to go in here now that it's just a shell of it's former self, but it's still a Vegas institution. We hit our traditional Megabucks machine for a quick $40 profit, but unfortunatey the 13 million eluded us. T sat down at one of our favorite penny slots, the Hot Shots Progressive. This machine was only a $1 max bet when we like to play the machines that are a $2 max. The buck machines seem to eat up your buy in and never pay crap, and that's exactly what this one did to T's $50 buy in.

We head on out and over to Mermaids for some alcoholic goodness. Ok, maybe not so good, but it does the trick. I grabbed a big frozen margarita, while BIL went with a football full of mudslide. For some reason the bartender took a liking to him and proceeded to "do him a favor" and loaded it up with like 6 shots of that high quality Vodka they use. The result was a drink that was pretty nasty tasting but hey, whatta ya expect at Mermaids. He drank about half of it and left the sitting in his room overnight and the resulting transformation by morning was something like a science project. While we were grabbing drinks, T hit up Elvis for a small profit before leaving Mermaids.



We caught a couple of light shows: Kiss and George Thorogood, as we casino hopped all around Fremont. Finally around 2 am (4 am our local time) we headed back to the Vegas Club. T just had to play a few more slots before we headed back to the room. I believe she played Hot Shots and some Gold Fish slots and some other stuff while I played around on a video blackjack machine and a little VP. I'm not sure what she won where, but somehow I had only given her $40 all night and she played and played and had around $150 when we went to bed. I'm not sure how she did it, but any win is good in my book, so we headed to bed happy Vegas campers.

Day 2 coming up next...

 

Like the airport carts

Even though I am not a fan of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, I am a fan of football.

 

Big Sooner fans here. Okie state...not so much.

 

Day 2 - Monday the 27th

Still being on central time, we were up early and ready to hit downtown for a few hours before our move to the strip. We met up with BIL and SIL downstairs while the teens continued to sleep. Our destination for the morning was Main Street Station to use a two for one for the breakfast buffet. There was a small line at the cashier that moved pretty quickly, but the lines at the buffet stations were painfully long. The food was pretty good – a few items could have been a little fresher, but for $3.50 per person with coupon, it was just fine.



After breakfast, we hit a few various slots at MSS with no big hits. Then we headed over to the Plaza to use a few coupons. Everybody used a $5 free slot play coupon that we got upon check in at the Vegas Club. I ran mine through a double bonus VP machine and ended up turning it in to $40 before cashing out. Headed over to a shoe blackjack game and played a $10 match play for a quick $20 profit. Thanks Jackie, we'll be leaving now... Back to the Vegas Club to dink around on a few other various slots and some video blackjack. Used some accumulated freeplay and dinked off some more money with no hits. Called to wake up J & D and told them to meet us downstairs to grab some cabs. Time to head for the strip.

After a couple of $20 cab rides, we arrived at the Imperial Palace. Ok, the IP was not in our original plans. We've had reservations at Bally's for months, but due to some unforeseen circumstances, we had to change over to the IP. Now I've never stayed at the IP, but after reading the reviews on the net, I was a bit worried. Oh well, we're never in the room anyway, so what the hell. I've had some good luck in the IP casino in the past anyway.

Check in was painless enough and all of our rooms were on the 14th floor. Headed up to drop the bags off and check out the room. Our standard king room was definitely a step down from our accommodations last trip – a 1600 sq ft suite at the Venetian – but it really wasn't that bad. Everything was clean, the bed was comfortable, and we really enjoyed being able to step out on the balcony at night. We had a view of the Flamingo and the Bellagio. My only real complaint was the TV. I mean where do they get these 19" tube televisions these days when they crap out. Ours looked straight out of the 80's. Now I don't go to Las Vegas to watch TV, but when I go to bed I'd at least like to be able read the ticker on the bottom of ESPN from the bed, but oh well, no biggie. The elevators were slow at times, but not bad once you figure out which elevator bank to use. And yes, the hallways can be confusing the first couple of times you try to find your room. Overall, for a cheap room with a killer location, I'd stay here again in a minute.



After dumping off the bags, we met up with BIL and SIL and headed out to the strip for the short walk down to the Bellagio. We caught the first fountain show of the day and headed in to the conservatory. The conservatory is always amazing to me and the fall display didn't disappoint. I love the Bellagio, but it's just one of those places I never seem to win, so we skipped the casino and headed across the street to Cabo Wabo for some margaritas and a little people watching. After drinks, we headed next door to Paris and played some more Hot Shots. No real luck here, so we waked through the shops over to Bally's. Played a few various slots here with no luck, and we were all getting hungry, so we headed out the doors by the sports book to Flamingo Rd and headed for Ellis Island.



I'm not sure why, but I really like Ellis Island. Since it was still early and not yet busy, we went ahead and went to the restaurant for steak specials all around. The food, brews, and service was exceptional! After stuffing ourselves, we all split up into the casino to get some play in. T and I headed over to the players club to pick up some freeplay, and then I headed to an empty blackjack table to play my ACG matchplay. I stood on 19 and the dealer busted to go 2 for 2 on matchplays thus far. Picked up my $20 profit and went to find T. She was staying about even playing different slot machines, so I played a little VP, hit a few quads, but just couldn't get ahead and cashed out about even.

We left Ellis Island and headed for the Flamingo to use a coupon for some free Nathan Burton tickets for Wednesday. Got our tickets , made a quick walk through the flamingo habitat, and walked back to IP for a quick trip to the room to give J & D some cash for dinner. Back out to the strip, we took the virgins over to Mirage to watch the volcano.

The rest of the night was spent at one of my favorite places – Casino Royale. We drank a ton of dollar Michelob's and hit the slots. T again cashes out a decent profit on the Hot Shot Progressives, plus used a coupon for a $10 dollar bonus when she hit the little progressive for around 30 bucks. We gambled with no major hits until late in the morning, grabbed some Ben & Jerry's on the way out and then stumbled back to the IP and headed to bed.

 

I can't read it since the text is cut off on the right. Love the pics though!

 

I scaled all the pics way down so it should be much easier to read.

 

Day 3 - Tuesday

We were up early again to get ready for another busy day. We met up with BIL and SIL down in the IP casino and played a little VP / slots. This morning we couldn't win at anything and the machines sucked up our buy ins like a Hoover.

We decided to get the hell out of the casino before any more damage could be done and go upstairs to use our free IP Auto Collection passes. I've never been to the Auto Collection before and it was a really nice way to spend about an hour. Some awesome classics and I especially enjoyed the classic Ferrari collection.

BIL and SIL are big NASCAR fans and were itching to go down to the Sahara to eat lunch at the NASCAR cafe. I've read some pretty horrid reviews of the cafe and we decided we'd eat lunch elsewhere and meet them at Sahara a little later. T and I advised them to get 24 hour bus passes and told them to wait for the Gold Line. Later I found out they got on the Deuce and it took forever for them to get all the way down to the Sahara. Anyway, I had a $25 gift card for Outback, so we headed to the location in Casino Royale for a quick lunch. I had cheeseburger and T had the seafood pasta. It's been awhile since I had been to Outback, but the food was great and the service attentive. Plus, it only cost $10 bucks for the meal. Left a very generous tip and walked down to the Wynn to catch the Gold Line to the Sahara.

This was the first time we have ever used the CAT bus system in Vegas, and we were pretty impressed. It's cheap, and once you get the hang of it, pretty efficient. Using the bus the majority of our time helped us save some bucks for our bankroll.

We hopped off the bus at the Sahara and went in to see if we could find BIL and SIL. They were just getting their food in the NASCAR cafe when we arrived. T and I grabbed some drinks at the bar and sat down at the table with them. They said the food was just OK, but they said the service was horrible. In fact from the time they got their food, their waiter never returned. They finished their meals and continued to sit – no waiter, and no check. Finally they got up to find someone who ended up being the manager, and he proceeded to tell them "well, it's not the server's fault, because the health inspector is there and everyone had to be in the back". I guess they just abandon all customers when the health inspector arrives. It took some more bitching just to get a minimal discount off their crappy meal. Glad we went to Outback

After the NASCAR cafe, we walked back to hit Speed the Ride roller coaster and for BIL to drive the NASCAR simulators. He said it was ok, but overpriced – no surprise there. After messing around in there for too long, we headed back to the casino for some low stakes gaming.

Now the slot princess T has never really played table games at a live table, but I was going to take this opportunity to break her in. We started off at the $1 roulette table, but didn't play for long. We spread bets around, but no big hits. I could tell she was getting bored with roulette, so I grabbed about 10 bucks worth of her chips and threw them on the 3rd 12. It hit, so we colored up and moved to the blackjack tables. Now I would never play at the crappy 6/5 tables in the $1 pit, but it seemed like a good place for a novice to get her feet wet. I coached her for awhile until she got comfortable and after awhile only offered advice in a few situations like when she needed to double after splitting. She learned quick and colored up around even.

We then moved over to the regular pit and she played on some 5 buck tables. The gambling gods weren't so kind here and she lost her buy in pretty quickly. I had a $25 match play burning a hole in my pocket so I went over to a $25 pitch game and waited for the shuffle. I through my 25 bucks down along with the match play and stood on 20. Dealer had 19 and we are now 3 for 3 for match plays. Took my chips over to the cage and gave the 75 bucks to T so she could play some slots. T's bad luck on the slots from this morning would continue at the Sahara. She bounced around from machine to machine, mostly playing mechanical reel .25 and $1 slots, but the Hoover vacuum was still in full force. BIL & SIL were still playing $1 blackjack, so we played a little more, waiting for them to finish up. We had plans for tonight, so it was time to get going. We caught the Gold Line for a quick ride back south, connected with the Deuce at the Wynn and made it back to the IP.

Back up in the rooms, the girls got all fixed up why us guys waited around for them, Once the were finally ready, we walked next door to Harrah's and grabbed the shuttle over to the Rio. Luckily, we picked up some comp passes to the Voodoo Lounge from a Rio employee handing them out as we made our way over to the elevators to the club. We took the elevator up to the 53rd floor and stepped out on to the patio and I think the BIL and SIL virgins were pretty impressed with the view. I'm convinced there is no better view of the strip in Vegas. We got there around 10:30, and the club quickly started to fill up and was hopping. The DJ was mixing some good tunes and we were having a blast. Somebody had the wonderful idea to grab a witchdoctor from the bar, and that was the beginning of the girls downfall. After a couple of beers, one hell of a strong margarita, and a couple of rockstar and vodkas, I was feeling no pain myself. We headed inside and partied there for awhile, but the girls were hitting the wall, so we made our way back downstairs about 1 am. The Voodoo Lounge is a fun club without the pretense of some of the others in town. It was perfect for our group, and damn, they pour some hellacious drinks.





Once we made it back to IP, we needed some drunk food, so we headed up to the Burger Palace for some grub. I had some breakfast and T had some wrap thingy she said was good. BIL and SIL ate some pizza and headed back to the room. T and I sat in the IP karaoke lounge and watched some hilarious singers for awhile before making our way back to the room to crash. All in all, a great night.

 

Great report so far! love the $1 Michelobs at CR.

 

Day 4 Wednesday

We were up early, but not as early as the past few days. I guess we were finally starting to get used to Pacific time. Today we were heading to the south strip, as we really hadn't been up that way so far this trip. We headed out to the CAT stop in front of the Mirage, boarded the Gold Line and headed south. We noticed the last stop southbound was the outlet mall and since this is somewhere we had been wanting to go, we decided to adjust our plans and do some shopping. The outlet mall had some decent deals. T bought a couple of pairs of shorts at Aeropostale for $5.99 that were normally 42.00 each. We picked up some shirts at Hurley for the younger kids back at home and grabbed a bite at the food court since we missed breakfast. Ok, there is no gambling or drinking at this mall thing, so I am ready to get outta here.

We caught the Gold Line again and headed back north to the Luxor. While BIL and SIL were walking around sightseeing, T and I hit the slots. Last trip we had a nice session on a $5 slot in the high limit area here, so we decided to try again. Slipped a hundy in a triple diamond $5 slot and after getting down pretty low, hit something to bring us up to $200. Doubling up is good for me, so we cashed out and looked for something else to play. Nothing was really calling out to us, and we were running out of time, as we needed to be back at the Flamingo for our afternoon Nathan Burton show. So we headed back out to catch the Gold Line once again.



We made it back to the Flamingo and met up with J and D to see Nathan Burton. The show was pretty good, if a bit short. Most of the tricks were really great, but it could do with less filler from the dancers. The guest act during the middle of the show was nothing short of hilarious. He did a bit where he used 4 audience members wearing masks and made them do some really funny crap. We literally were in tears. He actually upstaged Burton IMO. Anyway, I dunno if I would have been happy paying full price, but for free, it was great!



After the show, we dinked around on some slots in the Flamingo. I played some Gold Fish slots that ate my buy in without a single damn hit. I went to see what T was doing and she was playing some kind of blazing 7's machine. Shortly after I walked up, she hit 3 blazing 7's for a nice $1000 hit. Ok that works, time to cash out and move on.

It was getting towards dinner time and we needed to pick up our rental van for tomorrow. We headed out to the cab line to grab a ride over to the McCarran rental car center. The new rental car center (at least new to us) is really nice and efficient. We picked up our Chrysler Town and Country and headed out. We were getting really hungry, so we decided to take J and D over to Ellis Island for the steak special since they weren't with us when we ate it earlier in the week. Plus we had some free play waiting for us we needed to claim.

We arrived at Ellis Island and parked in the parking garage. We decided we needed to pick up a few things at 7-11 so we walked next door. After paying for our goods, we got to witness a disturbance outside between what looked like a couple of homeless guys accusing each other of trying to hustle tourists.

Back in Ellis Island, the restaurant was hopping, so we put our names in and left J & D in there to wait for us to be called. T used her free play on a random slot, while I ran my 10 bucks through a double bonus machine. Hit quad 10's on my second hand and cashed it out as it was time to eat. The service tonight wasn't quite as good as a couple of days ago, probably because the restaurant was really busy, but the food was still great. We refrained from giving back any of our profits and headed back to the IP in the van.

After dropping the van off, we got a text from BIL saying they were at TI waiting for the Sirens to start and wanting us to meat up with them there. Well, T and I have seen the Sirens and the god forsaken crowd in front of TI during the show, and decided we'd meet up with them elsewhere after the show. So, we hit the Venetian as we had some free play we needed to use there. I played some DBVP and doubled up my $25 freeplay and went to see what T was up to. She was playing a Cleopatra machine that she had good luck in the past on, but not tonight, as her freeplay went up in smoke. We wandered around the V and through the Canal Shops and back out to the strip. We hadn't been in the Mirage yet, so we wandered over there. We wandered around looking for a slot to play and T sits down at some kind of machine I don't think I've eve seen. It was a multiline mechanical reel $1 slot. I tried to explain in all my gambling wisdom that she would be better off playing a single line $5 slot or something, but as usual, she didn't listen to me. She popped a hundy in and a few spins later, $1100. Nice job slot queen. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut. We played a few more $5 slots and gave a little back before walking back over to the IP.



We decided since this was really to be our last night on the strip, we needed to go do something, so we met up with J & D, and hopped in a cab to NYNY to ride the roller coaster. We were shut out there, as it was closed. J & D head out to the strip to take some pictures and we decide to play some slots. We played some various $1 slots but T couldn't find any of her now favorite multiline machines like at the Mirage, so after dumping a few hundred, she settled in on a newer Hot Shots Progressive that we hadn't seen before. It was pretty much the same as our usual machines, but with updated graphics, different background, and new music. It was a good choice as a few spins in, she hit the bonus round for $400. We cash out while we're ahead and go out to find J & D.

It's a long walk to IP, but we cross over towards MGM, and start leisurely walking back north. After awhile, we were tired of walking and grabbed a cab somewhere around Paris. Back at the IP, we headed up to the room as we needed to get an early start on our road trip tomorrow.

 

Day 5 – Thursday

We didn't quite get the early start we were looking for this morning, as I think everyone was pretty tired. We all met up in the IP parking garage and loaded into the Town and Country. The first stop of the day was the Peppermill for some breakfast. The Peppermill ain't cheap, but man they make some good breakfast with huge portions. Everyone raved about their food and we left completely stuffed.



We left the van parked at the Peppermill and took the short walk over to Riviera to use the ACG slot play coupon for play $50 get $25. We played some $5 slots to quickly get enough coin through to get the $25, and then moved over to megabucks for a quick session. Megabucks sucked up our buy in and the freeplay in a matter of seconds. Moved to some various $1 mechanical reel slots with no luck at all. $25 freeplay turned into more like $200 up in smoke. Oh well, after yesterday's hits we are up pretty nicely.



We make the short walk back over to the van and hit the road. Our next stop is Gold & Silver Pawn of Pawn Stars fame for a quick look around. Some interesting stuff inside, but we were really surprised how small the place is. On the way out the door back to the van, Rick rides up on his Harley, so we snap a few pictures.





Back on the road, our next destination is Las Vegas Motor Speedway for the track tour. Unfortunately, there was a problem with the vehicle they use for the tour and it would be an hour and a half before we could get on the tour. We didn't have time to wait, so instead, we drove into the infield to snap a few pictures. On the way out, we made a stop at Shelby to tour the cars on display. I'm not a big Mustang guy (drive a 2010 Camaro) but it was a really interesting stop and worth every penny! (free)





Leaving Shelby, we hit Lake Mead Drive for a scenic desert drive towards Hoover Dam. It's really amazing how one second you are in metro Las Vegas, and the next minute you are over the mountains in the middle of nowhere. Beautiful drive, as we love the desert landscape. Pulled over at a few scenic spots around Lake Mead to take pictures, and eventually made it to the dam. It's really incredible how low Lake Mead is.



We drove over the dam to the Arizona side for the free parking and walked back across to take pictures. The bypass is really coming along and looks like an engineering marvel. We skipped the tour, as we were running short on time and needed to get back on the road to make our flight.



On the way to return the van, we made a quick stop at Starbucks to give T her coffee fix, and made it back to the rental car center to drop off the van. After a quick and painless shuttle ride, we were back just in time to grab a quick sandwich and make our flight. Oh yeah, and to run $20 through a .25 double bonus machine and cashing out $40 for the final win of the trip.

The flight back was smooth and on time, and after the 2 hour drive back from OKC, we were back home around 2 am.

Overall, we had a great trip. With T's two big slot hits, we ended up coming back with around the same amount of cash we left with. That's a win in my book. Now it's time to start planning an end of the year return trip.

 

Thanks for fixing the spacing issues! I'm really enjoying the report so far....

 

Great Report!!

Glad everyone had a great time , how did the *under 21s* make out, Did they find lots to do and see ,whilst meandering about on their own?

 

I gave them a list beforehand, of attractions they should check out. I know they did the IP Auto Collection, NASCAR simulators and Speed at the Sahara, Madame Tussauds, and all the free stuff: fountains, volcano, sirens, etc. They also spent a lot of time hanging out at the Fashion Show Mall and Forum Shops. Amazingly, they spent a good amount of their time sleeping in the room until 1 or 2pm each day. I dunno how you can sleep in Vegas, but they sure did, lol.

They both said they had a really good time, but that they'd hold off on coming back with us until they were 21.

 

Nice trip report!!!

 

Loved the TR, nice hits on the slots!

 

Great trip report! Felt like I was there while reading. Great slot hits...sounds like she's really lucky!!

 

nice report, great slot hits!

 

great report

 

Nice report and sounds like the slot queen had some nice slot wins, always makes a trip better to win some, especially when you are paying for 6.