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Table Games Beware the $5 All Tall Small!

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by boxofbirds, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    Just a little anecdotal story:

    Aria has a $5 minimum on the All Tall Small bet [total of $15], I'm sure there are some other casinos in Vegas that are the same, but most allow you to play $1 minimum [total of $3]. For some reason the local I play Craps at, Snoqualmie Casino, also has $5 minimum, even though their tables are usually $5 minimum Pass line...

    Anyway, so I went to my local for a short hour and a half session last night. I bought in for $200, my usual for a $5 table. It was choppy, a bit slow because table was full and lots of crazy bettors. Almost everyone was playing All Tall Small for every shooter AND reloading when they sevened on the come-out. I ended up leaving the table at +$40 for a win thanks to to the final shooter that brought be me up from down -$80 or so.

    When I got home I thought about all that red on the All Tall Small and realized that in that short session there were 7 shooters, plus three of them sevened on the come-out, and despite two good rolls, no one hit any of the All Tall Small. So if I had been playing I would have lost $165 on just the sidebet! I would have left the table down -$125 instead of up +$40.

    If one small or tall had hit I would have only added $5 to my total win for the session. It would have had to hit twice to see a real profit. What a drain on the bankroll!!

    I totally understand that if an All had hit, or a couple of Small/Talls had hit I would have a nice win, but the Small or Tall only hits once out of every 38 rolls, and the All only once out of 190 rolls!

    My point is to be able to just survive a short and average session I would have needed an additional $200 bankroll to play $5 minimum on the All Tall Small. Yikes!
     
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  2. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

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    any high vig bets are hard on the bank roll. These should be played for fun or entertainment only, not as an expected source of win at the tables
     
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  3. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    Exactly, I think this is one of those things that every educated gambler "knows" but I guess it didn't really become a clear black and white reality for me until I analyzed that otherwise unremarkable session last night and realized what would have happened if I had joined the others in playing that sidebet
     
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  4. Here2Learn

    Here2Learn Low-Roller

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    Yup AC moved to 5 dollar min for the ATS and it put a tear in my eye. Ironically I've played it twice since the change and hit it on the second try! I almost passed out when I hit it lol.
     
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  5. Calder

    Calder High-Roller

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    I never bet the ATS, but I'm lifetime positive on it thanks to tips from others when I've rolled it.
     
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  6. Laugh

    Laugh High-Roller

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    I loveee ATS. So much fun. Hit the AS this past trip twice. $5 min at Mirage. The one time I missed on betting it, it hit ATS and this guy had $25 on each. >> I can't count how much that is cause math is not my forte.
    I don't play it all the time. I play it when that older gentleman comes by and consistently throws heaters.
     
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  7. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    That's what a house edge of 7+ percent does! (at the 34/175 pay)
    I would NEVER play roulette because of the 5% house edge, but damn if I don't throw some money on the ATS bet every now and then.

    But I understand the idea of actually seeing something to come to the realization of how things work. I recently was at a table where I had placed the six for $30. The shooter held the dice for maybe 30 minutes and hit my six six times. That means I netted $180. It got me thinking long and hard about how pressing works. I don't press much, but I should have that roll. But it took experiencing it to drive the point home.
     
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  8. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    I think even more than the 7% HA, it's the variance!
     
  9. james_james383

    james_james383 Tourist

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    The ATS is one of those "sucker bets"... that I usually play.
     
    It's Vegas, Baby!
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  10. AyDee

    AyDee is getting too old for this

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    20.81% HA at vegas 30/150..

    I bet it for kicks at GG, a few other places because I can't at MSS where I do most of my grinding.
    Was only a 10 away from all tall and all last trip (my roll). mistake was realizing it and trying extra hard to hit it, IME, it's a bit more likely to hit when no ones paying attention.
    When I hit the small it was a crap roll, and I couldn't figure why the guy across the table was cheering, until they shoved $30 at me.

    $5 min is definitely too rich for my blood. The come out 7 is a bitch too. (but a decent chance to jump in if the shooter seems warmed up)
     
    hopefully, we can make it.
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  11. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    Yup, and I will not pay that much for the entertainment value. I resent the places that have this pay table. 8% is not high enough for you, huh? Geez ya greedy bastards!
     
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  12. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

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    MB does the $5 minimum ATS. Cosmo does the $1 minimum.
     
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  13. FABismonte

    FABismonte Tell my wife I am "about even."

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    I know the house edge is pretty steep on the ATS bet but I love that bet because if I hit one (even just an T or S) it usually signals to me that it is time to walk and gets me off the table usually with a nice profit. When I play tables without that side bet, I often just keep circulating my money until I am tapped out.
     
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  14. smerrian

    smerrian View from Bally's

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    In AC the ATS payouts are 34:1 and 174:1...much higher than LV. I still won't play it. I like the simple math of the straight game without carnival bets.
     
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  15. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    FWIW I really don't have any problem playing it on occasion if it's a dollar minimum, it is fun when it hits, though I've never been at a table when an All has hit. I've only hit the tall/small myself twice.

    But $15 for every shooter and the occasional reload with a 7 on the comeout, no way!!
     
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  16. FABismonte

    FABismonte Tell my wife I am "about even."

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    According to the Wizard of Odds, the ALL should hit about one in 190 times. While we all know about variance, it is odd that as an experienced craps player you haven't been on such a table.
     
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  17. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    Agreed! But, the majority of my play has been at tables without ATS, so I'm sure people have hit the "All" while I'm present, but there wasn't anyone keeping track because it's not on the table. I've also played at ATS tables where no one was playing so it didn't get tracked.

    My rough guess is that I've maybe played at the most 1 "All" cycle of shooters at ATS tables in my lifetime, possibly less, so not surprised that I haven't seen it hit yet.

    I've also had 22 trips to Vegas without a Royal, so maybe I'm just unlucky ;)
     
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  18. tex55

    tex55 High-Roller

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    I might play it for fun with a $1 minimum, but having to pay $5 per spot is too much on a bet with a 20% house advantage.
     
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  19. mercr350

    mercr350 Tourist

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    Noooooooo. Don't laugh at my favorite bet.
     
  20. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Did you send that same thing into a podcast or get it from a podcast?