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Beware: denied Seven Stars for "overcomped"

Discussion in 'Comps' started by skyscanner, Nov 4, 2019.

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  1. IAmPrince

    IAmPrince Tourist

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    To @skyscanner - sorry to hear that you didn't advance as you expected, if I was you I'd move on - there's absolutely zero sense in trying to fight a status. Everywhere it's clearly stated that 7 stars is by invitation only, who reached 7 stars after how much play or how quickly is completely irrelevant to your 'case'. Trying to take legal action is a waste of money and time, even if you get a pro bono lawyer ( which personally I highly doubt ), you're still wasting your time - need to decide if your time is worth enough not to do so.

    6.5k loss this and 1k loss past year is not gonna cause any attention - of course in theory even with high playing you can end up with these numbers, but it's nothing worth to look at in the grand scheme of things. Of course it all comes down to theo, with 1h on average per day, well, same story unfortunately. With 100 nights and a 6.5k loss overall, you're losing an average of $65 a day / night...

    Without offending you or playing the smartass, if you run the numbers, I think it's understandable that you do not really fit into their 7 stars program expectation, which is obviously their flagship tier and by invitation only, intended for heavy players. Of course it's disappointing not to getting the 7 stars while you reached the TCs needed, but at the same time you're aware it's by invitation only.

    Showing up a 100 times and paying in full during non busy nights doesn't make things better, because as you stated yourself, an hour a day on average is what you gave them on play (the casino doesn't care why you don't play more) and by doing so, you gave them a very reasonable sample size of what to expect from you in future.
     
  2. grosx2

    grosx2 Have fun storming the castle!

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    Right, but again, they will point out that those are merely the minimum requirements to even be considered for 7*.

    At the end of the day, despite what "usually" happens, 7* is invitation only (unlike the other tiers), and they aren't going to invite someone if they feel that a continued relationship with that customer won't be beneficial to them.
     
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  3. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I agree. But many "advantage players" have bothered with Seven Stars in the past. Several posters on another forum whom I respect. This may change now though. Programs like this are always subject to change. That's also partly why I cringe at those who leave huge comp balances in their account.
     
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  4. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    The thing is I did go and speak to Caesars Rewards supervisors and hosts when I reached 25K TCs and asked them about Seven Stars. Without exception, they all said: reach 150k TCs, have no markers and no security issues. Wasn't my 2 year history known to them then? I feel that this is a bottomless sack, whenever you fulfill an objective, even more pop-up.
     
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  5. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    Actually, without offending you or playing the smartass, this vile company's "flagship" tier is not Seven Stars but in fact Chairman, granted to Terry Wanatabe, who was "allegedly" plied by Caesar's with excessive alcohol and drugs to keep him in a constant state of intoxication, based on his lawsuit.

    Caesars wasn't satisfied with the $112 million they "earned" off of a gambler in a constant state of intoxication. Terry Wanatabe sued Caesars after they went after an additional $14.7 million marker "earned" off of Terry while he was in a constant state of intoxication. When the dust settled, the New Jersey Gaming Commission fined Caesars, a jurisdiction Terry never stepped foot in, for Caesars reprehensible behavior. Caesars paid this fine to the New Jersey Gaming Commission.

    “Senior management did not respond appropriately to allegations that the player possessed and used illegal drugs on (Caesars) property, (and) engaged in inappropriate sexual conduct in the presence of (Caesars) employees and made inappropriate sexual advances toward (Caesars) employees,” according to a report by an investigative firm hired by the casino company."

    When the dust settled, Caesars dropped their lawsuit for their marker in a settlement with Terry Wanatabe. CET management, always and forever the lowest common denominator. You play with snakes, you're going to get bit.

    As you were.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  6. IAmPrince

    IAmPrince Tourist

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    In what way is your post related to this thread, or my reply to this thread? To correct me that there once was a tier for one of the most degenerate gamblers ever?
     
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  7. Grant1982

    Grant1982 High-Roller

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    Not much you can do unfortunately, but if this happened to me I would be spamming your story in every nook and cranny I could find on the internet to expose them to others. This type of management discourages players of all sizes, not just those chasing 7 stars.
     
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  8. alanleroy

    alanleroy Click my avatar

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    Well, since you are a high Diamond, take advantage of every Diamond Perk for next year and stiff them on gambling. Maybe you could invite a different homeless person to join you in the Laurel Lounge each of your 100 nights. That would be a nice 2 way Karma for you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  9. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    Ceasars Reward supervisors are not the ones that make the decisions on 7 Stars, nor are they part of the discussion on the decision. They manage the Rewards club desk. That's all. For sure, the markers and security issues will stop you from 7 Stars, however, that doesn't mean that those are the only reasons to deny people. I have read about several instances where savvy VP players have been denied 7 Stars. This is not new. It may be the first time this is posted to this board, but this type of denial is not new or unique.

    Edit... Note, I would consider anyone that can get 150K tier credits, while minimizing bankroll risk to be small, even if playing 96% VP, a savvy player.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  10. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    And if you could speak to them directly, you'd likely find that they were instrumental in establishing these very rules that resulted in this denial of 7 Stars. Ain't gonna matter who he talks to.
     
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  11. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    I know of VP players denied 7 Stars for being "overcomped" while playing the best VP, and playing mostly on multiplier days. I've read about denials for that type of reason for years. Those type of players don't post to more causal/travel boards like this one though, so you aren't going to hear about it here.

    How many people who are 7 Stars are on this board? 10? It's a small population. And the % denied are of course much smaller population. Again, the type of players who are denied for profitability issues don't typically post to more causal/travel boards like this one though, so you aren't going to hear about it here.


    I'll throw in a different example. For years, before Boyd cut their BConnected benefits, people who played primarily on multiplier points days at the Suncoast were banned from playing there. Security confronted them and read them the legal trespass act! That's right. They have promos to encourage you to play, yet ban you if you play them too much. It's crazy, but that is the world of casinos today. Now I know this banning has happened to many people. Anyone have ONE example of someone saying it happened to them here on this board? The point is, just like 7 Star denial, just because you haven't seen it posted here doesn't mean it is not happening/happened.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  12. stlguy197239

    stlguy197239 High-Roller

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    It's sort of strange that with your level of play, enough to get to 7*, that you never received an offer for free play or food comps. I spent 4 days in Vegas playing at CET properties earlier in the year and they can't stop sending me free play and food comps for trips over the next year. Something seems really off about how they are handling your account, going back even further than this 7* stuff.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  13. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    They've downgraded the VP paytables so much that the best game you can find is 6/5 Bonus Poker on a multi-line. The denials of VP "savvy" players happened long time ago, when you could get 10 coins for a full-house and 7 coins for a flush on a Jacks or Better game and you were playing at positive EV. Now you're playing with a 2-3% house edge.
     
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  14. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    It's so strange to me as well, that is why I really want that list with the comps to double check everything. In September, I saw a charge from Flamingo for 119$ on my Caesars Rewards card that they had on file. I called billing and they said "oh, you gave your card to your guest Mark R to pay for the resort fees on his 3 night stay with us" . " What, I do not know any Mark R and I never lend my credit card to anyone !" I have never lost my 2 cards (one with the Total Rewards logo, the other one with the Caesars Rewards logo), but the hotel did have it on file. That's what the police report is for. So mishandles do happen.
     
  15. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    I agree. But note the context. My post discussing that was replying to the posts saying that they hadn't heard of anyone being denied in the past. That shouldn't be mistaken into saying that is exactly what I think is the issue in your case.

    For sure though, they have issues with your play level. As others have mentioned, the fact that you at the Tier point level of 7 Stars eligible, yet don't get free play offers or comp rooms, is to me the most interesting/noteworthy/surprising thing in this entire thread! A LOT more surprising than you being denied 7 Stars! That shows they had issues with your play level even before the denial.

    Heck, a family member of mine plays in AC twice a year, putting about $500 through VP, and gets free play offers!

    I'd love to start a thread saying "post here if you you have 150K Tier points or more and yet have no free play or comp room offers." I can't imagine there would be one response besides yours. I'm not attacking you. Just saying the lack of offers were a huge warning sign! Yes, if someone else was using your card, that could be the problem. Maybe your first or second letter could have asked for a list of days that they have activity on file for you, without quoting state laws. If you had that list, this factor could be shown to be the problem, or ruled out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  16. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    You were incorrect to assume that there is a room discount that I receive: there is no difference in the rates I see when logged in and the rates that are displayed when I log out, again because of no offers. I don't receive any discount whatsoever, not even the 15% off for Diamonds. There was another poster in here who complained about this same issue.
     
  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    This! I don't understand all the discussion and speculation. This fact combined with a measly average length of play (other than one trip out of 100 nights) seem to make it obvious why the OP was denied seven star. For someone who has stayed 100 nights with CET, the OP is a small player. It may suck, but keep in mind that all the player club programs (not just CET) include disclaimers that allow them to change the rules at any time for any reason. The OP's ADT is small over multiple years. One day of big play combined with promotions is not going to get you through the door to seven star in light of all the other information
     
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  18. alexm

    alexm Low-Roller

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    If you are booking your room logged in online those discounted nights would all be considered "comps" Since you openly admit you gave them virtually no play on most of those 100 nights they would likely consider that abusive. Also important to not it that you did not truly earn the 100k from gaming alone, but from gaming with promotions. If I recall from your other thread you had earned about 15 in actual TC ( I thought I recalled two 5k and 1 2500 1 1000) While that does amount to 135k ( I believe you indicated you were a video poker player) in coin-in it also amounts to a theo of about 2700 which would earn you roughly 900 in comps, spread out over 4 days about 225 per day. If they believe that they comped you $25 per day for a casino rate room and then $30 per day for resort fees, they feel that they have comped you roughly 5500 dollars in comps for play that probably has not earned anywhere near that. If you were a slot player your numbers would be doubled, give or take, which is still not even in the ball park of what they figure you have already earned. I agree that Caesars should be acting in good faith here and give you the status that you did earn, however I can certainly understand their side of ledger as well. To them you appear to be an individual who is taking advantage of promotion for the specific purpose of advancing status (5x TC on room booking, 5x multiplier days only etc). Considering that Seven Stars has some very real automatic comps 1k in food vouchers, airline credit x 2, a retreat next year, and more, I can certainly see how they may hesitate to offer it to you.

    In all honesty even if every credit earned was from gaming over the course of the 100 nights, you would have average an additional 520 TC per day (plus the bonus of 125 TC) which would have given you an ADT of 104 dollars and a comp value of 33 dollars per day.

    All told, I think you are the type of player that they clearly don't want obtaining the 7 star benefits. That being said I still don't think it's right. I think they should have been more up front with you earlier on. When someone is staying tons of nights and racking up points for a status they clearly never intended to grant you, that to me is bad faith. Coupled with their perceived standard of no markers and no issues to me puts you in an unfair situation.

    As to fighting it. I think you are on the right track. If you can show that the rates you paid were rack rates, then you did not take any comps from them which would not be abusive. The other option would be to take the fight to them under false advertising or false pretenses. All of these promotions were marketed as "upgrade your status" I believe you may have an argument to show they never intended to let you do that, or that you following the promotions directly prevented you from doing that. You could argue that in terms of real compensation from Caesars they would owe you 1000 in celebration dinners (500 in this year and 500 next year) 3400 in retreat travel ( 1200 airfare this year and next 500 in folio this year and next) a cruise on Norwegian cruise line and a seven stars event. Real life value is over 5k which is nothing to sneeze at. I believe there a number of lawyers in and around LV who specifically fight against casinos on behalf of players. I am not sure if that's worth it to you, but that may be your best course of action.
     
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  19. sinnerman

    sinnerman High-Roller

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    Yeah, @skyscanner , while I totally feel for you and I would be really really pissed off if this happened to me. But, I think the simple problem here is exactly what @UKFanatic mentioned.

    CET wants only gamblers for 7* and they don't qualify you as a gambler. You stayed at CET for 100 nights (with $10K hospitality spend, which gave you the 50K TC's). You earned the remainder of the 100K TC's in a 5X promotion, so you essentially only put in 150K Coin in as you stated. Since you played VP (theo is 2% of coin in), your theo is only $3000 for the year. Spread that over 100 days, you ADT is $30 a day (if you also stayed 100 nights last year, then your theo might be even lower) This means your comp value is $10 a day.

    Basically your explaining that you made $150K TC's doesn't help your cause with CET, it hurts it, 3K theo is what 7* players often hit in a single night, not in a year.

    The reason CET says are overcomped is that for diamond, CET gives a room discount even if the rooms aren't free. This means that even a reduced room rate has a 'comp value' (i.e. the difference in the room rate CET charges someone with no card vs the rate they gave you). Multiply that difference over a 100 days and you were definitely 'overcomped' in CET view Also, the comped resort fees is a comp as well

    One likely reason players who made the Ak-Chin promotion got diamond by making 5600 TC's is because they may not have stayed in the casino for 100 days. If a person showed up for a few days, made 6K TC's then that person is not overcomped. The fact that you stayed at CET for 100 days is what screwed you over.

    I would tell you to vote with your feet and go to other casinos, but I suspect that no casino MGM, Wynn, VP would give you top tier status with that low an ADT. However, I still think CET is in the wrong since you legally gamed their own system and 7* costs then so little , they should just give it to you. But unfortunately, since the T&C are clear, there is no way to make them.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
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  20. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Poster gets no room offers or food comps.
    Does not even get discounted rooms.

    Sorry - but CET is right.

    This is not a player.

     
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