1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Beware: denied Seven Stars for "overcomped"

Discussion in 'Comps' started by skyscanner, Nov 4, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. westcanguy

    westcanguy Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    188
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    It's their program and they make the rules. If you don't like it, you can move your play elsewhere. While you won't agree, from a business prospective I would think you are considered a flash in the pan with no history of any consistent heavier play. There is no indication that you would continue the same play you put in recently. As a result, they won't miss your business because there is no reason to think there will be future business. Time to move on. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a clause that allows CET to rescind offers or status for any reason. If there is and you continue to push...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  2. jgates8

    jgates8 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    7,388
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    23
    It almost sounds as if someone isn't digging enough and is feeling that these rooms were comped for you. Either way, I'm sure they are calculating those and it is bringing down your ADT to a minimal level that they don't feel qualifies.
     
  3. alanleroy

    alanleroy Click my avatar

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,272
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    87
    100 nights seem like a lot. I bet there's a formula somewhere that it's used to get a No 7 Stars For You read out.
     
  4. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    4,143
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    I am very sorry this happened OP. Yes, CET, within reason, can do what it wants but I get your outrage. I would be pissed. If you had lost tens of thousands of dollars in October playing exactly as you did I wonder if CET would be acting the same way.... Don't think so.

    Having pages of fine print as part of their rules, which so many customers are expected to follow to a T, and for them to say we aren't awarding you Seven Stars status for some ambiguous reason that doesn't appear consistent with the facts as you have laid them out, is just bad corporate practice IMO. What's worse is that, as another poster noted, CET ADVERTISED using the 5x tier promo to increase your CET status. This is such BS and such short sighted on CET's part. So what if you want to maximize 14 months of Seven Stars benefits? You should! The benefits maybe amount to 20k if you take full advantage/maximize i.e., two seven stars retreats, cruises, 500 in dining credits x 2, etc. I can't believe CET is sweating this this much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    Celebrating 19 + the Promise of 20 While Getting 100s of Aces in LV!
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Love Love x 1
  5. jon_vegas

    jon_vegas High-Roller

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Messages:
    759
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    52
    Maybe the price you paid for the hotel rooms were already discounted and the difference with the full rack rate is added to your "used comps" total.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Patman

    Patman High-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2016
    Messages:
    992
    Location:
    BC Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    23
    Sorry this is a really Sh%#ty deal for you but not the first story I have heard of someone being denied 7 Stars recently. Things have been changing the last couple years at CET. They came out of bankruptcy and pretty much have a done deal for a sale so there is no need to pump up the players club.

    While some of the comments are valid, reading between the lines a bit made this maybe make more sense. OP paid for rooms but could access the diamond lounge (translated to low play so no comps and status matched to get diamond and got perks from base diamond). Before multipliers and bonuses OP actually earned about 13,500 in tier credits for the 100k bump. I'm guessing the total actually earned from gambling was less than 20k or 30k for the year. OP had 150,000 coin-in for the 13,500 in tier credits so it sounds like it was mostly from VP. OP had about 100 paid nights (waived resort fees from matched diamond). This would translate to a very low ADT and below even a lot of based diamond players and atypical of most if not all 7 stars.

    The letter states over comped from last 24 months, but I suspect maybe based on the ADT, they would also expect OP to be significantly over comped for the next 12 months, I don't think the issue is the 4 days and the multiplier. It's the other 100 days staying on property.

    Did I misread something here?
     
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wow! Wow! x 1
  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    20,324
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    Nope. I totally agree with your assessment.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. NewOrleansSlimm

    NewOrleansSlimm VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,338
    Location:
    New Orleans, La
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    you can always go above people and see what happens, ask to speak to the GM David Hoenemeyer or go to his boss Tom Jenkins
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. mikel123

    mikel123 Not A Lawyer

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Messages:
    776
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    As another poster mentioned though, offering 5X tier credits - of which the only purpose is tier advancement - on hotel spend, then not counting it towards their highest tier is really shady behavior.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Love Love x 1
  10. ACSCLE

    ACSCLE Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2019
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    2
    Them terming it "comp abuse" seems unnecessary. If you feel they are wronging you, you should take your play elsewhere to other casinos in AC/Vegas that will treat you better. I would be upset to get that sort of response with no details/proof as to what they mean. You already had a police documented incident earlier this year related to this, the least they can do is let you know if it was a case of someone using your player's card for free parking and not playing or something similar to that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate High-rolling diner. Low-rolling gambler.

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    3,422
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    13
    OP, I'd just ask them point blank... "Why would you advertise this as an 'Advance Your Tier' promotion, if you won't permit me to advance my tier when qualified?".
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    100k TC's come from gaming @Harrah's AC, so that's 67%. They want you to have no promotions at all and to loose 6 figures in the casino.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Wow! Wow! x 1
  13. JulianC

    JulianC Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2019
    Messages:
    112
    Location:
    MA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    CET does not really focus on the hospitality side when it comes to tier status -- not in Vegas, and definitely not in any other market (with AC and Reno/Tahoe being the markets where they come the closest to doing so... but really, not close at all). It was only several months ago that CET started rewarding 5 TCs per dollar of hotel room charges -- just the room itself and any associated fees (even Diamond and 7* are required to pay local fees in NOLA and AC, despite having resort fees waived). Anything else charged to the room (restaurants, spa, etc.) and any other resort spend remains at $1 = 1 TC. By comparison, MGM Resorts International focuses almost its entire business around the properties on the Vegas Strip it operates, with a huge focus on the hospitality side when it comes to tier status. I hear that Noir (also invitation-only) is 2 million Mlife TCs, which in Vegas would be $80k in annual resort spend (or $600k coin-in on non-premium slots, or $2m coin-in on VP, or liberally betting grape and banana chips at the tables); Mlife Platinum would take 10% of those numbers, and a good number of people make Mlife Platinum almost entirely from resort spend. In the Vegas market, only Cosmo would have a larger focus on hospitality with its loyalty program (more on them in a bit).

    The above is why Seven Stars with CET is for only the heaviest of casino players. IMHO, one really needs to be doing a minimum of Platinum in a Day *every* gaming day to be 7* material. (20 x PIAD = 150k TC, which would be $1250 ADT if done purely on slots and maybe $500 ADT if purely done on VP.) One could grind it out with 1-2 1000 base TC days every single week, but even that would be borderline with a $500 ADT at absolute best. If you want to try to get there with minimum 500 base TC days, be prepared to have your life be taken over by visiting your CET local every 1-2 days.) Consider that the key benefits of being 7* are much more aligned to having extra trips during the gaming year to gaming destinations to -- you guessed it, put in more gaming activity. (This would be especially true for those few 500k TC 7* members who get *both* Signature events plus their own Elite event.) I cannot think of any other casino/resort loyalty program's top tier that does this, save for maybe BConned to some degree.

    Let's call it 100 nights at an average of $100 per night over the first nine months of 2019 (273 possible nights). On average, that would be 2-3 nights per week. That alone is enough for any casino to have zero incentive to send (good) offers; you are already regularly showing up on your own with little enticement. Supposing you started the year at Diamond, you would have made the 15k TCs to keep Diamond after 30 nights. The new Diamond Plus (25k TC) tier would have been locked up at 50 nights.

    Not "earning the room" is the quickest way to get a "do not offer" added to your file. Ask anyone who got and used an attractive teaser offer at Cosmo for a weeknight stay and did not have at least $600-1000 (depending on the room type) in ADT to have truly "earned the room" and perhaps enter the territory of getting back end comps. (I have been that lower-playing person, and I have not seen a gaming offer from Cosmo since then that includes a comped room. Still more to come about Cosmo.) With CET, if you book a room online while logged into your Ceasars Rewards account, or you provide your CR number when booking over the phone, the rate you get will indeed be based on a discount from (first) just being a CR member and (where applicable) any gaming activity you may have (and especially for weekdays, tons of data points out there confirming that even minimal play can get significant room discounts or even the occasional comped night). If we have even 50 nights with a discount of at least $20 compared to not having the stay tied to a CR account and prior play, those discounts would total at least $1000 of comp value. If we suppose that all 100 nights had about $40 worth of discount on the room rate based solely on past play (and, thus, play being reasonably expected on every night of the stay), then $4000 of comp value was provided.

    Let's estimate a total of 20 nights out of 100 where there was gaming activity. Even if all of the no-play days did not count against the OP, that would still be at least $400 of comp value on days with play. From all of the information provided in this thread and the previous one, let's presume at most 5000 TC earned in the first nine months of 2019 with no bonus TCs earned on any individual gaming day. On average, that would be 250 TC per gaming day. ADT would be about $50 ADT on VP (or $125 ADT on slots), for a comp value (I estimate it to be 30% of theo on average; most casino hosts would concur, and I invite any who might be reading to weigh in) of about $15 (or about $38 on slots). In total, 5000 base TCs from VP would be about $300 of comp value (not counting the $50 worth of RCs also earned).

    Not everyone "earns the room" every single time, but maintaining a level of play that is at least 50-60 percent of the ADT for the comp value of the offer (the room and anything else added, like free play and dining credits; also, some places may consider comped resort fees, lounge access, and maybe even earned self-comps in the overall comp value) is usually enough to keep the same tier of offer (or, with CET and reserving rooms outside of "formal" offers, the same general range of room rates). Remember that the casino is making a gamble themselves -- that you will play more (and, hopefully, "donate" more) this time compared to last time.

    If I were going to spend $10k on just hotel rooms at a gaming property, and I wanted to reach the top loyalty club tier based on just that, I would do it at Cosmo. Identity Membership & Rewards provides 5 Identity points (and 5 tier points) for every dollar of resort spend -- even at the day/night clubs (something that not even Mlife does). 50k tier points (with the 50k Identity points being worth $500) gets one to the top tier. The only benefit listed for the Platinum level of Identity that is in any way tied to gaming activity is the 3x Identity point (not tier... just point) multiplier on slots (and *only* slots; sorry, VP players). Everything else is a "guaranteed" benefit on the hospitality and entertainment side of the house. Given the typical rates at Cosmo outside of non-gaming offers, one stay per month of 2-3 nights each stay would earn Platinum.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  14. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,047
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    56
    I posted my advice in your first thread. I am very sorry this happened to you. For all the justifiable outrage aimed at Boyd on VMB this past year, this is a far more vile and despicable turn of events.

    I would escalate first internally within CET, and if unsuccessful contact first the New Jersey Gaming Commission and if necessary follow up with the Nevada Gaming Commission to see if you have any recourse. I'm not sure if an attorney is worthwhile unless someone would represent you either pro bono or on a contingency basis.

    Mention the scumbag Total Rewards clerk was encouraging you to gamble more after at least one of your enormous gambling days to rack up extra rewards, rewards in which CET reneged once you did your part. Also reach out to Vital Vegas, the 7 Stars Message Board (independently run) and any other internet forums if you exhaust all appeals and give CET all the bad publicity they most certainly deserve.

    It sounds like you may not get any further comps, not just 7 stars but anything else (perhaps not even Diamond Lounge since they are possibly fraudulently stating you have "abused" comps). You should take any last thing you can from them, bringing an alcohol consuming guest whenever it is convenient to Diamond Lounges, and never, ever, ever spend a penny in any CET resort ever again.

    While this was extremely unfortunate, VMB membership appreciates your candor which will hopefully educate others as to CET management's ethics and morals.

     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    First Ever Leap Year Day Vegas Trip! Viva Retirement!!!
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Love Love x 2
  15. Giovanni

    Giovanni Tourist

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2019
    Messages:
    95
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    999
    Bro unfortunately they don't care about your use of free parking or if you ate a lot of food or little at diamond lounge and not if you were drinking alcohol or orange juice..
    what they care is only ADT and actual loss

    But to understand you better let's get some more info:
    1) what games do you play at the casino? VP? what exact game? (to know the hold)
    2) how many hours on average? (they do like you to play at least 4 hours on average a day...)
    3) how much coin in per day did you do on days of 5x on average? (without tier bonuses)
    4) how much coin in did you do when you stayed on low rate nights?
    5) what's your actual loss this year and the last year? (and when i say loss i mean in gaming not on rooms low rate or restaurants spend)

    Also by the way what benefits are you trying to get by getting seven star?
    to me personally it's doesn't give too much of a value besides 500$ vs 100$ celebrating dinner and 3 guests at diamond lounge vs 1 guest and priority in line to diamond lounge. am i missing something?

    In addition to that: if you are trying to " fight" them hard you need to take to consider that they can not only decide to decline your seven star status but also block you from any future offer or benefit and even to block you from playing or visitng any of there casinos .
    it's sucks and maybe not fair but thats it is what it is so don't try only to be mr. right but also it's important to act smart.

    if you want to go "all in" and "fight" them no matter what and ready either to get what you want or not play at their casino at all so go for it but otherwise accept the fact that they can ask for more than just coin in or low rate nights booking for their "invite only program" and if you do want to be a seven star try to give them more ADT (or losses ).
    good luck.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    You are wrong, it was not a matched diamond at all, I did have 30K in Tier Points in 2019 and 15K Tier Points in 2018. Only for 2017 it was a perk from the FoundersCard. Las Vegas Diamond lounges only provide you with salad and snacks and chicken wings, an entry there is definitely not worth the 20$ in comps they say it's worth. AC Diamond Lounges are much better. ADT should be multiplied by the number of days, after all Caesars cares about its yearly revenue, when they draw their balance sheet at the end of the year it is the total revenue for the year that counts. Yet, they value much more a player who loses 1,000$ once than someone losing/giving them on average 50$/day for the entire 365 days.
     
  17. mrstealth

    mrstealth VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,047
    Location:
    Midwest - Sister Bay, WI
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    62
    I've been a member here since 2009 and during that time, OP is the first person I can remember being denied 7* upgrade.

    While it is a shame that OP was denied 7* Stars upgrade, the fact of the matter is (and it has and always been promoted) an invitation only program.

    Maybe I am just a skeptical person, but I am thinking that perhaps there is more to this story than has been shared with us.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  18. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100

    1. 75% VP but also 20% slots and some 5% table games
    2. 1h at most, I have light asthma and their casinos are super smoky, there's not a single corner in any of the 9 Vegas casinos where smoking is prohibited. In AC, I did 16h on average (20 the first week, 4 the second, 20 the 3rd week, 20 the 4th week)
    3. One day @ 12K, one day @25K, two days @50K
    4. If there were low rate nights, they were so because the market rates were low. I do not see any difference between rates when I am logged in and logged out.
    5. 6.5K this year and maybe 1K last year.

    They've already denied me 7* and there is no way to appeal it. I have never received any offer from them in free play or food comps (except for Laughlin and Lake Takoe which I haven't used and the casino bus bonus for riding the Greyhound from Philly into AC) and I went to AC at my own expense, paid flights, transportation and room. This is more to advise people to stop at 25K TCs, as there are no more Aspiration levels and Seven Stars is quite uncertain even if you reach the points.
    I already had a discussion with them in July, I told them I want to reach 7*, they said put in more play and reach the 150K TCs. Many hosts told me it takes a lot of time and effort to reach that number and they appreciate that and no longer look at the comps vs losses balance.
     
  19. grosx2

    grosx2 Have fun storming the castle!

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    2,901
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    28
    Their response will point out the fact that 7* status is unique, in that it is the only tier that is not automatically achieved by earning a set number of tier credits.
     
  20. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    20,324
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    But in the past, usually 150k tier and a clean record with credit/general behavior was good enough.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.