1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Anyone know what the TC/base point is for slots @ mLife MGM National Harbor?

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Casino Hotels' started by DaiLun, Jan 8, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    9,726
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    It used to be:

    1 TC/base point ($3 coin-in on slots) at MGM Grand Detroit

    2 TC/base point at Beau Rivage or Gold Strike

    10 TC/base point at any Las Vegas MGM Property

    Anyone know what the TC/base point is at National Harbor?

    Anyone know what the TC/base point will be when Borgata is coverted over?

    TIA
     
    Another NGO trip. QQQQ/NYNY
  2. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    9,726
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    UPDATED: They (mLife customer service) told me that it's 8 Tier Credits per point at MGM National Harbor, and Borgata hasn't been defined yet.
     
    Another NGO trip. QQQQ/NYNY
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. meyers67

    meyers67 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,630
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Thanks for letting us know. It's good that the earning rate is close to vegas.

    I never understood why the Detroit or B.R. earning rate is so much lower.
     
  4. DCSeawolf

    DCSeawolf Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Bethesda, Maryland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Yes, but based on my experience, a point (at least at VP) is $20 coin-in; so a point at NH costs twice as much as a Vegas property.
     
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    22,408
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    I am guessing it's to further entice you to come to Vegas, which likely makes you spend more money. I think it's a bunch of crap though. I'm shocked they are giving 8 tier per point. I was going to guess 2 like Mississippi.
     
  6. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    9,726
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    OK, an update . . . .

    I got an email today from mLife, and they stated that

    Good Afternoon,

    Thank you for your response. The tier credit breakdown is as follows Las Vegas properties receive 25 tier credits for every eligible $1.00 spent. Regional properties ie; Gold Strike, National Harbor etc. 8 tier credits for every eligible $1.00 spent.

    If we can be of further assistance to you please do not hesitate to contact us.
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    So, that is for spend, but I clarified the questions and asked them what is was per "point".

    I will post the reply as soon as I get it.
     
    Another NGO trip. QQQQ/NYNY
  7. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    9,726
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Update:

    The reply reads:

    "Thank you for contacting M life Member Services. It is 10 TC’s for every $3 on Reels and 10 TC’s for every $10 on Video Poker. Please contact us should you have any other questions or concerns."

    So, it is the same as Las Vegas.
     
    Another NGO trip. QQQQ/NYNY
  8. DCSeawolf

    DCSeawolf Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Bethesda, Maryland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    10 TC’s for every $10 on Video Poker.

    Based on my experience over 7 trips to NH, I don't believe this is the case. It seems like I'm earning half the tier credits I'd earn in Vegas, at best. Take this weekend's visit for example:

    Played mainly video poker (100 hand machine). It's $20 coin in per "point" (I've confirmed this through experience multiple times). I started the trip with 9,810 points, and ended with 10,901. That's $21,820 coin-in for the trip (number may be slightly off because I also played a bit of non-real "specialty" slots). I also spent $150 or so at Voltaggio Brothers and probable at least that in other drinks/charges, each time I put down my MLIFE card. I began the weekend with 4,612 tier credits and ended with 9,060 -- a gain of less than 5,000 tier credits. Something is off in the numbers.
     
  9. Drewm1972

    Drewm1972 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    3,000
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I hear it's regards to state gaming law (I know right! This didn't make whole lot of sense) anyhow, when I play Vegas at table I earn 300,000 - 500,000 Tier credit in a week and same play I will earn 1/10 here in Michigan. Therefore, I also they made Noir into invite only since so many people can qualify for Noir based on point system (in Vegas)
     
  10. brahmabull

    brahmabull Newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    6
    Based on a conversation with the Mlife rewards desk supervisor at MGM National harbor on 2 different visits. The tier credits earned per base point at that property are 4. Base point earnings are uniform in all MGM properties these do not change only the tier credit ratios to base points. So its 1 base point for $3.00 in a standard slot and 1 for $10.00 in video poker and specialty slots. Then you get 4 tier points for each base point at MGM Nat.Harbor.

    The 8 tier credits per dollar spent at the hotel, spa, or any of the restaurants or shops in the market or on property, is also confirmed by the MLIFE rewards desk at the MGM National Harbor. That is NON Gaming tier credit earning for your hard cash spend on anything outside of the casino.

    The reason I had such a lengthy discussion about this with 2 mlife supervisors and the executive vip host director, is that I do my own calculations and they had their earnings either off or set way low for the "preview nights" they hosted before they opened up back in Dec.. I attended one by invitation. I felt after opening the slots were still off and not crediting base and subsequently tier credits properly. So I raised the issue multiple times with my host and his bosses, getting no where. They kept pushing me to the mlife desk. When I sat down with the 2 different ladies and ran through my numbers coin in vs what I spent in hotel and spa, etc, vs what I was given and showing in tier credits. Nothing added up. They concluded same as I did. Some or most of the slots might not calculate correctly on base point earnings or they have an incorrect tier credit multiplier programmed on the back end. They were going to look into it, and meantime adjust my account with additional tier credits. This never happened...I follow up with those same people on each trip making sure I am letting them know I am not going away. More people need to post about the miscalculation their slots or their backend computers are doing on the tier credits. Or they will just keep "F"ing people over for as long as they can get away with it and never admit they have screwed up somewhere.
    I wont keep driving to them if they have their slots set tight as they are now and the farking things are going to cheat me out of rightfully earned tier credits...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. DCSeawolf

    DCSeawolf Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Bethesda, Maryland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    I hate sounding like a broken record, but something is off. I've made at least 6 trips to MGMNH and can confidently say that VP is awarding 1 base point for $20 coin/in, not $10. I ran about $27,000 coin in through VP my last trip alone and that trip, including like 5 others, plus several hundred spent in restaurants/drinks, and I have 10,000 tier credits. Simply put, their math does not add up.

    I'm going back this Saturday. I guess I'll have to take time out of my day to visit the MLIFE Desk and have a discussion.
     
  12. NevadaHotDice

    NevadaHotDice Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    NoVA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    First off, brahmabull, thanks for getting to the bottom of this. I had talked to reps, tweeted MGM, and sent e-mail with no luck on any of the info regarding the devalues at MGMNH.
    So I definitely appreciate the info and I'm sure many other gamers do too. Nice to see it's at least a little better than MI & MS though still depressingly lower than Vegas.

    Second, a follow-up question for you in case you got this info out of them:

    Did they say how long it should take non-casino spends to process? I'm sitting some dining spend around 3 days now that I haven't seen clear at all.

    ---------

    One final follow-up. I'm sitting at around 91.27% slot payout (note - that's obviously not including FreePlay, so in reality I'm much lower), with a maximum single win of ~$65 thru 5 trips. Not amazing, but one of the things that's nice about MD laws is that while individual machines can go down to 87%, the floor average must be between 90-95%. That tends to result in better numbers than Charles Town as WV law sets an individual VLT floor at 80%.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  13. nightveil

    nightveil Tourist

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Virginia
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    I've been going back and forth with my host at MGMNH on this one as well. mLife still hasn't updated their main website to reflect any of the earnings rates at NH, but it seems like it may actually be as low as 1:1 tier credits to base points. I don't believe the 4:1 rate referenced above is correct.

    All the hosts I've talked to just shake their heads in disbelief about the whole earnings thing, because TR doesn't do this, and they can't for the life of them understand why MGM neuters earnings at some of their properties like this. My calculations weren't adding up just like some of the other folks on this thread... and I still haven't gotten a straight answer. I also had my now former host (he was a tool) try to justify that the reason MGM is cutting earnings is because Maryland taxes them heavier than any other gaming market in the country. Funny, that doesn't seem to deter Horseshoe from offering the same earnings rates they do at every other property.

    In my case, I'm seeing even less than the 1:1 ratio... with almost 540k of coin in, I should have at least 180k base points... i have only around 130k. Since they also don't define what a "specialty slot" is - that could encompass half the casino, so its anyone's guess what they are really up to over there. At least Horseshoe clearly marks machines that down earn the standard tier rates.

    This is really only gripe about MGMNH... I love the property, love my host, and have won BUTTLOADS of money there... but if I'd spend the same coin-in in Vegas, I'd be pushing 1.7m tier credits. It just stinks.
     
  14. NevadaHotDice

    NevadaHotDice Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    NoVA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Yeah I am 100% inclined to agree. I have not played a single machine at MGMNH paying out credits at the $3:1 rate.

    Right now I'm at about 11k coin-in and maybe $150 in hard spend and I have 4200 TC or so.
     
  15. nightveil

    nightveil Tourist

    Joined:
    May 25, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Virginia
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    After another email conversation with my host earlier tonight, she told me pretty bluntly that they refuse to publish the numbers for MGM NH on what constitutes a base point (its considered proprietary for this property). She also repeated the company line (which I can't fault her for, several other hosts have parroted this verbatim to me) that MGM is doing this because of the slot taxes being charged to them by Maryland. I suspect they don't publish or admit the rates because they are so abnormally low, and it REALLY puts them at a competitive disadvantage to the other Maryland properties once it gets out how poorly they're comping people. I know my Express Comps are literally quarters on the dollar to what I earn at Horseshoe.

    The two pieces of information I did get were that the 4:1 tier credit to base point ratio is, in fact, correct. She also narrowed down "specialty slots" to slots that are branded, like TV Shows, characters, and Wheel of Fortune, but since they're not specifically labeled in the casino, it is pretty hard to know which ones actually do qualify in that category.

    But it seems like the main issue here isn't really the 4:1 pay... its the fact that they've actually watered down the base point earning rate. Since most of us were operating on the assumption that MGM was fairly consistent across properties with the $3/BP rule, that's where everyone was getting taken.

    If I take my base points and work them against my total coin in, with my rough math at MGMNH it comes out to about $15 in coin-in per base point. In my case this could be skewed a bit, and could also be the $10 slot/$20 VP/Specialty values someone else threw around as well, since its hard to know what a specialty slot is. Assuming that roughly $15 per base point value with a 4:1 tier credit earning rate makes all my numbers come out almost exactly. Since I play almost no video poker or tables, and arguably very few of the "specialty slots" by their definition, I'm pretty confident the $15/BP number is about right, or can at least be used to calculate a rough estimate.

    That seems to explain the gross TC shortfalls that everyone is encountering. So if you go into it expecting about $15 coin-in/BP and 4 TC per BP... you won't be shocked. Its certainly not great, but it is what it is. The solution, I guess, is to hit Vegas a time or two a year and really pack in the play during that time and to keep complaining to mLife and NH about it. At least until MGM realizes how competitive Maryland actually is and wakes up.
     
  16. NevadaHotDice

    NevadaHotDice Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    NoVA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    It's a little better for me -- $12.03 coin-in/BP ($12.5k in for 1044 points -- don't even mind sharing).

    It also means that something is definitely not posting hard-spend wise OR the 4 TC/BP is wrong. I've used the food court at least 1/2 of my trips, and by the 8 TC/$ on hard spend, my remaining TC would work out to $28 total hard spend, or probably about 1/4-1/6 what I've actually spent. Wondering if Maryland has some rule that excluded alcohol in rewards for hard spend (probably half of my hard spend is on the MGM Stillwater Seasonal in the food court, which is about the most redeeming part of the place).

    Oh, and to make it worse I'm on a shit slot run too, down to 87.2%.

    It's looking more and more like Live/Shoe should get my business.
     
  17. BenWayne

    BenWayne Newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Maryland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Spoke to a rep at the Borgata in AC yesterday who said the tier credit multiplier there is 3x (as opposed to 25x for Vegas properties and 8x for MGM National Harbor). A complete joke if that's the case.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.