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Any reason to visit and or stay at Downtown Grand?

Discussion in 'Downtown Hotels' started by jsiadak, Jan 21, 2014.

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  1. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

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    I didn't realize it was that quick! That's just stupid in a "why bother" sort of way.
     
  2. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    I see many of these changes (D, GG, Plaza and now DTG) as the 'stripification' of downtown hotels. These hotels want to appeal to the younger crowd and go for the flashiness, hot girls and the club type of atmosphere IMHO. This age group doesn't care about bad paytables or high minimums as long as they have fun.

    While they are bringing in more of the younger crowd they are also chasing away us 'old timers', esp at the D where the music at night is (still) irritatingly loud.

    I see this action similarly to the change to the "family" oriented theme that was tried over a decade ago. They didn't realize that the families don't spend a lot of money, esp gambling so that theme tanked pretty quickly.

    The older crowd brings in the steady gambling and steady income, the new crowd IMHO is a flash in the pan, bringing in quick money but not sustaining itself, needing a continuous influx of young people to keep the money coming in. We'll have to see if it will continue (the move away from the "grinders" downtown) but right now these changes are the "in" thing.
     
  3. Avsman17

    Avsman17 High-Roller

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    What have the table minimums been on the weekends?
     
  4. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola El Jefe

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    When I was there in November the table mins were $10 for craps and BJ, on fri and sat nights. Not sure about daytime on weekends.
     
    Annual CCA (Casino Collectibles Association) Show at South Point
    Long Overdue Stay At The Golden Nugget
  5. savage810

    savage810 Low-Roller

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    The best draw that place has for me is the lovely brunette cocktail waitress who brings you drinks before you can finish the last one.

    All the other waitresses there seem to be there to socialize.

    :beer:
     
  6. McGoo

    McGoo Low-Roller

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    I am usually excited to walk through a new casino, unfortunately I am not at all excited to see the DTG. I am more excited to see the new Osheas then DTG.

    Benny Binion's words are just as true as the day he said them

    "Good Food, Good gamble, Good whiskey" and people will come!
     
  7. boxcars

    boxcars High-Roller

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    Buddy of mine was there two nights ago (Tues) and said the floor was dead. Craps $10. That's no way to earn newcomers, that's for sure.
     
  8. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

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    $10 craps on a Tuesday night huh? Unless they had a convention filling the hotel (I kid.....) that sounds pretty stupid.

    It always amuses me that craps and BJ seem to have the same min. $10 BJ min isn't that bad....$10 craps? That's a whole nother ball bark!
     
  9. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

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    Never understood this either. Surely they must realize that an active, lively $5 craps table is more profitable than a dead $10 table. I'll frequently pop for $27-Across on a $5 table, but no way I'm dropping $54 on a $10 table.
     
  10. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

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    Exactly. On a $5 table I will usually have $31-$37 out there to start after the come out roll. $62-$74 is not where I want to begin. Very few people make a minimum pass line bet and nothing else. I don't get the $10 craps thing when the place is dead. The DTG is trying to be something it shouldn't be.
     
  11. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    Like I said, it is the stripification of downtown. You see the empty $10 or higher tables on the strip all the time. The problem is that downtown you can go to almost every other casino (except for the GN) and find $5 tables, even $3 tables during slow days or nights. Why stick around the DTG and play the higher minimum tables when you can go elsewhere and play for less?

    I know that some here are probably rolling their eyes at our complaints but in order for a hotel and casino to survive they need to bring in customers and get them to gamble or spend money. Keeping high minimums on an empty table does not bring in revenue and actually chases people away from the casino IMHO.

    I visited the DTG last week, didn't apply for a casino card and did not play on empty tables. They won't get my business until they improve things (lower minimums and better paytables). :Þ
     
  12. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

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    I don't know why more casinos (especially on the Strip) don't always start the day with craps tables at $5 - it will quickly fill up and you can always bump it to $10 and grandfather people in who have already been there. You're more likely to get 3 or 4 people buy in at $10 even if the other 5 or 6 people there are playing $5 than to get those same 3 or 4 people to walk up and start playing at a completely dead table.
     
  13. marksind

    marksind VIP Whale

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    Table Limits and Pay Tables

    You'd think the tradeoffs in the casino business would have been analyzed to death by the operators. Perhaps they have, and what seems like common sense to us is actually wrong statistically. It is hard to believe, though, that empty higher limit tables and unused poor-pay VP machines provide a higher return over time than busier lower limit and better pay table ones.

    Even with the older more-favorable rules and better pay tables the odds still favor the house. Most "full pay" video poker is only 98 or 99+% long-term payback, and that's with "perfect play," which few of us are capable of. I try, but I am a recreational gambler who drinks while playing, and my skills diminish accordingly. Even sticking to the best tables and machines I can find, I rarely have a "winning" trip. But as I tell people, I expect to help the casinos pay their employees and utility bills, but don't want to help pay for any new buildings! I keep playing even when on a losing streak, but don't want to hurt myself even more by stepping up the stakes or playing games with unfavorable rules or pay tables.

    I guess what I'm driving at is that when all the decent options disappear my Vegas days are probably over. Reno still offers some "old time" gambling conditions. We'll be staying at the Downtown Grand Feb. 4 - 8, but from the sound of it we won't be gambling there.
     
  14. Fraggle

    Fraggle People Watcher

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    I doubt this is the case. I think they just have no idea how to run a casino in the downtown environment. They tried to have the 'new' factor drive people in instead of actually creating a positive atmosphere for gambling. If they don't reverse course quickly they will be in deep trouble. Word of terrible gambling, terrible beer, and terrible service spreads really quickly. You can get away with falling behind in one or two categories, but unfortunately for the DTG it seems they can only succeed at failing hard. I don't think they will survive to be honest. Kind of sad.
     
  15. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    It's even more alarming when you consider what the recent Vegas Chatter article about downtown casinos revealed - the one about revenue.

    Casino: 53.74%
    Rooms: 16.58%
    Food: 14.99%
    Beverage: 8.38%
    Other: 6.32%

    With casino revenue being the Lion's Share (ahem) of downtown income, it's pretty clear that you had better get that right above all else. Fancy-ass rooms, restaurant 'experiences' and lounges etc. are a distant second.

    So why the hell don't they know this?
     
  16. Fraggle

    Fraggle People Watcher

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    Good question. Unfortunately they don't have much time to figure it out..
     
  17. merlin

    merlin MIA

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    These places are run by accountants, Say they are getting 200k a day in play on VP and are making 6k a day profit(3%) - they really think that if they better the paytables they will "lose" half their profit, and they figure they cant do that cause they're losing money overall now as it is.

    They cant seem to understand that they might get 3 or 4 times the play(or more) with better rules and their profit could double.Not to mention the extra players would feed on themselves to increase business since few people desire to gamble in a place that's dead. Having non casino people running casino's is a prescription for disaster.
     
  18. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    Reminds me about the joke where a construction worker, an engineer, and an economist are all stranded on a desert island with a few cans of food and that's all.

    I'll keep it short - construction work says let's find some rocks and smash these cans open. No, no, that might waste some.

    Engineer says 'I've calculated the load needed to puncture the can and if we harness the elasticity of this palm tree blah blah blah...'. No, no, that will take forever.

    Okay, Mr. Smart-ass Economist, I suppose you have a solution that's better than either of ours?

    "Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. First, assume we have a can-opener..."
     
  19. TomTWI

    TomTWI Custom Title

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    On our recent trip I was downtown three different times and never visited the DTG. This was based on the reviews on here LVMB that said there was nothing there for me. If I had heard thee was some decent VP or BJ I would have walked over and dropped a couple C notes like I did everywhere else I went :(

    TomTWI
     
  20. TomTWI

    TomTWI Custom Title

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    On another note:

    I"m retired now but I spent half my career in pricing and half in financial analysis. Not in the casino industry but the problem is similar. The price (hold % in this case) vs volume (coin in) equation is something we analyzed to death. We did regression and elasticity analysis. Problem is you always have to make some assumptions and there are so many additional variables to consider you really can't get a clear picture. For instance assumption: "If we decrease our hold 1 % we will get a 25 % increase in non gaming revenue" analysis says this is a good idea so the casino adjusts pay tables and analyzes the results after three months. Casino loses money because non gaming revenue only goes up 15%. But you don't know if they are still better off or not because of other factors like weather, conventions, flu epidemics, competitive actions, holidays, unemployment, etc. Building models to control for this stuff kept me employed but there is always one more variable.

    You get the idea and the other thing is the DTG had a business plan when they started. It may not be a good plan or one I would have chosen, but I assume they are following it and won't panic or change for a couple years into the plan.

    my two cents

    TomTWI
     
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