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Algo flaw, Flipping the comp script

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Sgt_Shultz, Sep 3, 2021.

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  1. Sgt_Shultz

    Sgt_Shultz Tourist

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    I first noticed the possibility for this July 2020, first witnessed it work Sept 2020, last witnessed June 2021 and BIL reported is still working 2 weeks ago.
    I'm posting now because I have enough data to answer most Q's, can confirm no effect on future offers and am that pissed off about the new service standards.
    This is an advanced hack. It only works for a specific group of players (without downside risk) but if you fit the mold savings have been $250+ at various times.
    All I ask is anyone responding avoid using company, hotel, management or slang names or any other words or phrases that will flag the social media sniffing algorithm for human eyes. We want to keep this flaw in place as long as possible.

    Short version,
    Rather then booking 5 nights comp in Sun out Fri in a room with a comp value of $129 per night instead he booked the general public paid rate of $69 for the same room type and back ended at checkout.

    Execution without downside risk is a bit more complicated. If there is any interest I will provide step by step instructions.

    Anyone else doing this?
     
  2. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    No, because I am fully comped at any properties and room types that I'd want to stay in without "gimmicks".

    Let me further add that IMHO, any strategy that relies on back-end comps is inherently risky. You are relying on

    1)Having enough play (luck or bankroll) to sustain your action to get to a required level
    2)The pit boss marking your play correctly
    3)The host that you're dealing with being amenable to giving you back end comps

    The ONLY plus side I can see to any strategy is booking at a paid rate makes the stay NGO, and if your luck is absolutely horrible, you can quit at any time without it affecting your standing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
    Borgata Atlantic City - 2 nights comped
    (tentative) First HGS weekend
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  3. Mr. Elite

    Mr. Elite Low-Roller

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    @Sgt_Shultz I understand that it is possible to book a lower rate than the casino rate / comp rate, however from what I understand the casino still pays the casino rate / comp rate versus the lower published rate.

    For example my comp rate for my trip last week was lower than the published rate until the Sunday before I checked into the property. I could have had a lower total rate by $200 dollars, however when the casino looks to comp on the backend they are still charged the casino rate/ comp rate. In addition, if the rates went up it could have went the other way, which happens more often than not in my experience.

    Mr. Elite
     
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  4. Sgt_Shultz

    Sgt_Shultz Tourist

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    @DaiLun ,@Mr. Elite

    Your points are well taken. Some of us play at a level where are our needs are met with no need for tricks. Others like BIL fall somewhere in the middle and view "gaming" the system as just one more Vegas bet.

    The ideal candidate for this needs to fit the following profile;

    Be willing to make that bet

    A long term knowledgeable player

    Play at a level where they historically get some backend but not enough to cover F&B(think foodie)

    Be "unhosted"

    Have at least third level card

    Don't carry a large point balance

    No weekend night in stay

    Willing to fudge the truth

    The end game works like this:

    Night before checkout ask on duty host something like "I'm just curious what kind of comps I've earned?". You should already have a ballpark idea. If they offer to comp off something simply decline by saying your not done playing and will deal with it at checkout.

    Here's the hard part. At checkout you have to get the on duty host to "want" to help you. Attitude is everything. Letting someone go before you helps (say "go ahead I've got time" sounding helpful not annoyed loud enough to be heard) as does leaving $20-30 in "points" they can take.
    Ask what kind of comps you've earned getting them to say a number. Then simply ask them to take it off F&B first because your boss, company, job will reimburse the room cost but not your gourmet dining. It helps to know what conventions are in town. Do not choose one headquartered at hotel your at.

    There's still more to it but will explain frontend step up and provide answers to common objections, "tripping points" later

    I did warn everyone that it's an advanced hack

    BIL is currently 4/4
     
  5. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    That is interesting. If all the stars aligned you could pull some value out of this, but you would also be taking a risk that it would backfire.

    The biggest snag is that they will want to comp the room before any food and bev. They will want to flip your room rate to “comp” before picking up any food and bev, and they will “helpfully” do this if you ask about comps mid-trip.

    I believe if framed correctly, by the right knowledgeable person to the right host on duty, it would work. If you don’t have a complete understanding of what you are trying to accomplish here it’s not going to work.

    It would be critical to wait until checkout day to do this so that they don’t adjust the room rate before applying back end comps.

    SOMETIMES it can be “cheaper” for them to do it this way. A host once told me it’s “easier/better” for him to book friends and family in at a discount rate and then comp that off backend than it is for him to give them an upfront room comp.

    Thinking this through, it could be the reason why some hotels don’t let you book suites at a big discount if you are entitled to comped standard rooms. Your play isn’t enough to cover an $800/night suite, but it very well might be able to get a $150 room rate picked up back end via this trick. If that makes sense to you—you’re a candidate to try this out.

    Personally I would prefer a guaranteed upfront room comp than a chance at squeezing out some extra back end food and bev. But it is an interesting concept to think through.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
  6. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I don't really view this as an "advanced hack". Its just lying. There's nothing advanced about that. It might be complicated, but not advanced. Its just too damn much work to try and get something small in return. Scams just aren't worth it, IMO
     
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  7. Brandt

    Brandt Low-Roller

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    Interesting. Curious how do you know the comp value of the room is $129, vs the published rate. Was this from a host?
     
  8. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    I will not do it.
    Can't imagine under any circumstances this is a smart move. Nope.
     
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  9. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    Too many "ifs" to make it a viable strategy (for me).
     
    Borgata Atlantic City - 2 nights comped
    (tentative) First HGS weekend
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  10. shallowpain

    shallowpain Tourist

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    An interesting dive into comp calculations if nothing else. For some people getting a little extra from the casino is just as exciting as a big slot win.
     
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  11. Sgt_Shultz

    Sgt_Shultz Tourist

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    @dankyone

    The risk is that they take comps for room first at the higher comp rate. If your normal play covers that plus some, worst case your back where you started. Yes you could get slaughtered, not earn enough and it would be a kick in the nuts to then have to pay for some of room but then the 10% of loss kicks in. IME most on duty hosts at night are busy and if you preempt them, volunteering to have someone else to deal with it most are happy not to be bothered. It would be less risky to not ask and you can pretty much figure it out. The reason to do it is, if the check out host lowballs you the come back is host X said Y.
    I forgot to mention that sticking to company owned restaurants seems to make it more palatable to them.

    @UKFanatic

    Normally I would 100% agree with you about lying. Which is why I intend to give them the same shot at the same bankroll while I stay with them and look for a new home. If it were any other company I would not have posted it. To us they "lied" first, removing stated benefits then even having the balls to rise prices just enough to make a "replacement" virtually unusable. Hell I even heard multiple long term front desk clerks tell people the coffee makers were removed because of covid when they took them out years ago.
    Yes, I know they "technically" have the right to change the program and we assumed when conditions allowed they would return. Is it "technically" lying to say "my company usually covers reasonable hotel room costs" if true and the host assumes you mean these room costs?

    What makes Vegas great is you get to mingle with people who $250 is small, with someone who its 5 or 10% of bankroll and you often don't know who is who.

    @dankyone

    Multiple conversations with multiple hosts. You can usually find out if you have offers and played enough to get backend before.
    Call the hotel directly (2-3pm pst mid week is often a good time) and ask to speak to the on duty host.
    Tell them the dates your looking at and just ask what the casino rate is for the room type you want. Most will tell you. Some however will treat it like its a state secret. Just try again another time or day. They usually do 2hr on duty shifts at bigger properties.
     
  12. Sgt_Shultz

    Sgt_Shultz Tourist

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  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I guess I just adhere to the adage that two wrong don't make a right (unless you're Homer Simpson)

    You have been a member at VMB for less than a week and its clear you are here for no other purpose than having an axe to grind against El Dorado. Your first post here was a diatribe against them. You declared you were here to learn more about different options. Nothing wrong with that. Also nothing wrong with complaining (though it becomes tiresome because its all been said here many, many times over). And your thread about left handed VP machines seemed consistent with that stated goal. But since then, you have spent the remainder of this week railing against El Dorado and peddling dishonest ways to try and take advantage of them. I'm not defeding El Dorado, but you are making clear your "advanced hack" requires dishonesty to be successful. You can pontificate about how mixing with people of different backgrounds is what makes Vegas great. I have no idea what that has to do with your scam. But ultimately, I'm just not interested in joining your Ocean's Eleven-esque inspired crusade against El Dorado because .... why exactly? They started to suck (I assume after not sucking, IYO, after hundreads of stays there). If you think they suck, just do what I did: stop staying or playing there! Trying to organize the masses (well, maybe not the masses since your criteria to participate in your scam seems kind of narrow). Your not going to bring down El Dorado or get even with them for reduced services by persuading a few people to join you in a risky scam that nets them a few hunded dollars in food comps. It just seems petty and dumb
     
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  14. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Comps on my account, or blood on my knife.

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    To add to this..casino marketing (folks employed NOT working in the casino; he’ll maybe not even in a state with casinos) have the most power of all; when it comes to comps/offers.
    Hosts on property can only give riddic comps when you have riddic money.
    Trying to back end comp ANYTHING is the worst idea possible because 99/100 times you’re going to be disappointed. (Unless you’ve lost somewhere in the five figures, or cycled through somewhere in the six figures)
     
  15. Renaldow

    Renaldow Low-Roller

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    So, your "hack" is basic social engineering. Yes, if you lie about things, people may believe you and give you something thinking they're helping you. Did you know you can get free candy bars by putting them in your pockets without anyone seeing? This is the level and sophistication of your scheme.

    The thing about Vegas is, they know how to deal with cheaters when they're found out.
     
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  16. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    VMB does not encourage members to lie or manipulate systems. In the end, it just hurts us all.

    I'm going to leave this for posterity, but this whole thread gets a rating of :nono: from me.

    I'm closing it to further comments.
     
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