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Actual W/L affecting back end comps

Discussion in 'Comps' started by EwoksEwoksEwoks, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. EwoksEwoksEwoks

    EwoksEwoksEwoks Low-Roller

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    Last night I had a strange experience asking for back end comps. Here's the situation.

    3 night weekend comp in standard room at The Cromwell
    $225 free play

    No play on first night
    5k tier credits earned (before daily bonus) on second night
    1.5k tier credits earned (before daily bonus) on third night
    Ended the trip +$1300
    Play was 90% craps with a little VP and blackjack.

    $70 room charges

    Was only the second time I've asked for back end comps (and first time at Cromwell) because I only recently started playing enough to feel comfortable asking for them (I know, I know the worst they can say is no but I'm not good at handling rejection, the thought of it gives me anxiety lol). Before, I would just use RCs directly for stuff instead of charging to my room. Now I've started using my RCs for free play on the last day of the stay and then asking for my room charges to be covered.

    I thought my room charges should be easily covered multiple times over by my play so I went and talked to the host on duty and after looking at my info said she couldn't comp my charges because I had a winning trip? I told her I had a winning trip at Bally's last month and the host on duty comped over $100 of stuff off my bill (which is true) and I asked her if the policy varies from property to property. She said yes it does. I said oh I thought it was just based on your volume of play. I didn't want to raise a huge stink over $70 so I just kind of tucked my tail between my legs and left.

    Now from all the posts I've read on this board, I'm pretty sure your actual W/L doesn't affect your comps at all, only your theo matters, but I can't figure out why she would tell me that. She's either lying or doesn't know what she's talking about, and either of those seems like a terrible customer experience. And if she was lying, why? If she didn't think the play warranted the comp why not just say that? Or maybe she saw I converted all my RCs into freeplay like 30 minutes before talking to her and thought that was a sneaky move?

    In any event, I just emailed my host after getting rejected asking for the charges to be comped off and he did it without a problem. I guess I'll just do that from now on. I just don't have a super close relationship with him as I prefer just booking everything myself.
     
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  2. IAmPrince

    IAmPrince Tourist

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    I don‘t know what your theo is based on what you provided, but I can assure you that actual loss does have an effect on backend comps if it is significant - what‘s significant is dependant on the property but for the tier1 properties on the strip at least with mLife I never had issues when a loss was in the low-medium 5 digits range getting taken care of more than the theo would justify.

    I do remember reading some threads though where people reported similar situations after winning trips.
     
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  3. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Trying to understand what your total play is often difficult. ESPECIALLY if you have table play where the entries by the pit critters is all over the place.

    The next roadblock/speedbump is the individual host you talk to. They are measured on everything, which include the comps they give away. Depending on how their current performance is, their offers/comps will vary. There is also a number already in the system tied to the cost of your room. That will vary as well.

    So... maybe you hit things just right on the previous visit, and slid off the radar on this trip.
     
  4. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    5k Tier Credits in one day is SERIOUS play. I am a slot and VP player and 5k takes a lot of play; I assume with table games exponentially more given how tight CET is with awarding tier credits on table play.

    IMO, winning or not that $70 should have been comped. Spreading your play across three days that's still 2000+TC per day on average. Others who are CET table game players should chime in but that's my 2 cents.
     
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  5. EwoksEwoksEwoks

    EwoksEwoksEwoks Low-Roller

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    To be clear, it was comped when I emailed my assigned host. It was the "on call" host at the property that said no.
     
  6. Mr. Politics

    Mr. Politics Low-Roller

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    May 21st, 2007. I had a comped few days at "The Hotel". My host told me to charge everything to the room, and come see him at the end to "See what he could do". At check-out I did exactly that. He pulled up my records, and said, "We show you are ahead $825 in blackjack [which was within 100 dollars of the true amount]." Then he said, "I can't do anything with that." Best he could do is commit to sending me an offer for another comped stay so the casino to try to get some money back.
     
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  7. jpw711

    jpw711 Is that your cat?

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    I had South Point tell me one trip, early on with them, that "I won last trip" so they didn't want to comp my room off at the end of the current trip. I got a little loud without getting loud and he comped one night out of the two. Something along the lines of "If you want Bellagio play to comp a room, I'll stay at Bellagio and play there." (All for a $39 room).
     
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  8. drac999

    drac999 High-Roller

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    I firmly believe that it depends pretty much on your host. Some go by the book and others look at the whole picture (past and potential future). I do think that overall comps aren’t like they “used to be” right now, but will probably swing back. Everything is cyclical!
     
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  9. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Okay. Makes sense. Great to hear.

    That your regular host did and the Cromwell person was no-can-do is a little troubling. I wonder how many other people he/she has treated the same way.
     
  10. Gamesman

    Gamesman VIP Whale

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    Stop going to the host on duty and use your host. Stop booking things yourself.
     
  11. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    It's not suprising that a winning trip could crimp getting back-end. In your case, since your real host comped the charges, it sounds like the host on duty just used it as an excuse.

    It may not be a safe assumption, but let's assume CET gives TCs at the same rate for theo on tables that they do on slots.

    If that's the case, then 6,500 TCs is the equivalent of $32,500 coin-in on slots, about $3,250+ in theo, and so about $1,000+ in comp value. I'd expect 3 nights over a weekend at Cromwell plus $225 freeplay would eat up most of that.

    So those calcs say it's a closer call than you might think. We don't really know what CET's method of giving TCs for table theo is compared to slots, though. The tighter they are with TCs for tables in relation to slots, the more comp value you would have earned compared to the calc I did.
     
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  12. alexm

    alexm VIP Whale

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    @EwoksEwoksEwoks I am going to echo what @Gamesman just said. If you have a host that is the person to be dealing with. I have had the same issue come up on my last two trips to AC. I understand that comps are different, but the actual act of having a host is not. When checking out the last two trips, the front desk offered to contact the host on duty because my host was on his weekend. The host on duty on the first trip said sorry, can't help with about 250 dollars in room charges. Second trip was about 350 in room charges and host on duty said she could only do $50. Both times I did not call or seek out the host on duty, it was just offered at checkout. Both times I emailed my host and he took care of the rest of the charges before I was out of NJ.

    In conversation with him for an upcoming trip he explained that players with hosts should always go through their host to deal with comps. The host on duty has a limited pool of what they can offer and very strict rules, while hosts have some more discretion. They can also reverse charges fairly far after a visit. He did that for me on my June trip where I checked out and emailed him, but he had gone out on medical leave. 6 weeks later he came back, emailed he had taken the charges and they were reversed on my card 2 days later. I wasn't expecting anything and got everything covered.

    I am never one to charge anything I wouldn't pay for normally so I never really care if I get it covered. It's fairly liberating because it does let me play how I want and if at the end that's good enough, then great. However letting your actual host handle it is the way to go.

    @Chuck2009x is pretty much spot on with his numbers which means with regards to slots. Especially since you didn't play slots your theo may very well have been lower. For example. A 99+% VP dollar game is $20 per TC. But the theo on that is about 10 cent. By contrast the $20 in the slots could have a theo around 2 dollars. (10% hold)
     
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  13. FABismonte

    FABismonte Tell my wife I am "about even."

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    I recall that a host gets (extra?) credit if he books your stay as opposed to you booking yourself. If so, you are doing your regular host a disservice in booking yourself then asking for help on back end comps
     
  14. JRRestoule

    JRRestoule VIP Whale

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    This all just shows that nobody knows exactly how the comp game works. You can gather all kinds of info and calculate until your eyes pop out of your head but it still won't always make sense.

    Comps exist to separate you from your money. Casinos want to have you play as much as possible while having it cost them the least amount possible. Although I do believe the amount you gamble is the probably the biggest factor in what kind of comps you might get, I do believe there are many other variables that have a substantial effect on what someone would get or not get. For example... frequency of visits, local or non-local, outcome of previous visits, win/loss, non-gaming spend, etc, etc. I also think something as simple as whether or not you tip while playing table games factors into things.

    It's all clear as mud.

    Congrats on the winning trip!
     
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  15. Don the Dentist

    Don the Dentist LV resident

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    South Point is famous for not comping winners, especially locals.
    Whenever on of us hits a taxable on video poker, the phrase used is "There goes my mailer!"
     
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  16. killswamper23

    killswamper23 Low-Roller

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    in some places your actual loss absolutely matters
    my best offers in fact have always came after terrible trips

    Every casino has their own system but I guess they want to know you can actually lose x amount of dollars when x is a lot rather than just your theo.their thinking is probably sure this player gave us a ton of theo but he won/broke even. how much would he give us when he's losing?

    in fact i had one terrible blackjack trip in a local enough casino.i lost about 8,000 dollars not betting that big, i just basically lost 80 percent of the hands i played. it was absurd how much I was getting back in mailers.in the next 2 months i was getting 400 in slot dollars/gift cards 3-4 times a week and once 5 times in a week. i gave them zero action more and just took all the free stuff which more than made up my blackjack losses.

    i then played on a friends card once because these offers were so insanely good trying to trigger the same offers, earning around the same amount of points i earned on his card in a day that i had earned on my card the day i got crushed in blackjack.i won small on his card. his offers came in and they were for a mere 25 dollars a day whenever i had 400 on my card. and honestly that 25 a day made sense based on the theo for his card.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2019
  17. Scottndindy

    Scottndindy High-Roller

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    Hosts on duty aren’t great. They generally will follow what computer says they can do and leave common sense out of it. That’s why it is so important to have a good host. I don’t ever talk to my host about charges at the end of my trip. I just forward the folio email to him and ask him to take care of it.
     
  18. wildfoodie

    wildfoodie MIA

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    I would guess that wins and losses do affect back end comps, and you definitely get more if you lose as oppose to win.

    Speaking of comps, does anyone know how they work timing wise? For example, if you lost a lot of money a week or a month ago and you haven't been back since, would you be entitled to ask for back end comps on your next trip (whenever that may be) OR were you supposed to have asked for those comps the week or month you had the big losses in?
     
  19. Scottndindy

    Scottndindy High-Roller

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    It’s my understanding that each trip stands by itself. Use the comps or lose them.
     
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