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A Few Questions About Casino Credit/Markers

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by notfromconcentrate, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate Connoisseur of dive casinos and obnoxious outfits

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    So, I'm interested in applying for a line of credit at the Four Queens (though this question is about casino credit in general) as I like the idea of not having to carry cash as well as reducing my liability on foreign currency conversions between USD and CAD. The process seems to be pretty straightforward (between the actual form and the anecdotes I've heard about casino LOCs here and elsewhere). However I've got a few questions on the subject that I was hoping some of you might be able to help answer...

    Foreign Accounts: To my knowledge, it isn't TERRIBLY difficult for Canadians with Canadian bank accounts and good credit to get casino LOCs... however I can only imagine this is at least slightly more complicated than using a U.S. bank account. I'm sure there's no "right or wrong" answer to this... but I'm generally curious about the experiences of non-U.S. gamblers when it comes to using non-U.S. accounts to get approved for this type of credit. On this general topic, could it possibly make a difference if I opened up a U.S. based account? I welcome any and all anecdotes on this subject as this seems to be the “pillar” of casino credit applications.

    Self-Employment: As I've come to learn with applications for such things as mortgages, being self-employed tends to be an impairment on one's perceived creditworthiness. My income is steady and likely no different from what an employee's income and bank activity would look like. However, I understand and respect that they'll likely look at my application differently based on the fact that I'm self-employed. For those who are or have been in a similar situation, can this be a barrier to getting a casino LOC? Is there anything I should do differently in anticipation of this possibly being an issue, such as purposely keeping more funds in my chequing account to keep the average balance higher?

    "Raising Red Flags": While there's nothing inherently wrong (depending on who you ask, of course... lol) with gambling in a casino with money you can afford to lose, I suspect it could be possible that having inquiries from a casino on my banking or credit records might be treated as a red flag in certain contexts. I'm not necessarily asking whether or not that will happen (since it will obviously vary from creditor to creditor), but what I am specifically asking is... will my bank and/or the credit bureaus be able to see these inquiries in such a way that it’s clear that they’re casino-related? I imagine the answer is yes, but I'd love to hear any general commentary on this subject. I'm intending to get a mortgage for the first time at some point in the next year or so... and the last thing I'd want is for a casino credit inquiry to disqualify me or put me into a different risk category.
     
    Four Queens Slot Tourney / Paris LV (First Time)
  2. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Self employment does not matter. They care about how much is in your checking account, not what your income is. They may ask you to put down a number, but will not verify it in any way.

    No experience or opinion on the other issues.
     
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  3. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    I can't speak to #1, but for #2 and #3, I wouldn't worry. They don't care much about your on-paper occupation -- many of their wealthiest clients are self-employed or own businesses. What they care most about is the amount of cash that they can reach through a checking transaction if they need to deposit a marker. As to #3, that shouldn't be a red flag at all; it only shows as a credit pull, not an open account, and it'll likely be in the name of Central Credit, not the individual casino.

    Bottom line is that casino credit isn't true "credit", but rather a modified version of a cash advance.
     
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  4. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate Connoisseur of dive casinos and obnoxious outfits

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    Thanks guys for the replies!

    One thing I forgot to add… is it possible to get casino credit without providing a void cheque? On 4Q’s form it looks like it’s mandatory… though admittedly I haven’t looked closely at other casinos. Only asking as I haven’t had a cheque for any of my bank accounts in several years now, and I’m thinking that if cheques are a standard requirement perhaps I should order some for that purpose.
     
    Four Queens Slot Tourney / Paris LV (First Time)
  5. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Not sure for 4Q, though I'm 99% sure I opened my Aria line without one. While I do occasionally have to write a check, they're pretty useless once the internet gets involved, since your account and routing numbers are the important parts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  6. MangoPort

    MangoPort Low-Roller

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    Most banks allow you to “generate” a void cheque online. Lots of places still need void cheques but no one uses cheques so the banks adapted.
     
    Coming from Canada
  7. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    The only possible issue I can think of is #1.
    I believe many Canadian friends did it already so they have more experience.
     
  8. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I don't recall providing a void check for any of my lines (and I have too many of them). Any info they can get form a void check they can just confirm with your bank anyway
     
  9. Patman

    Patman VIP Whale

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    I have/had markers at 5 Mlife properties, 3 CET properties and recently V/P. All on my Canadian BMO bank account. The first few were on a $Cdn dollar account, but the last few were on a $US account with BMO in Canada. The only issue I run into, is that the ABA routing number for Canadian banks has and extra digit in it. This seems to confuse the credit department sometimes and I have sent them a copy of a cheque so they can verify the number. I've never had them cash the marker so I'm not sure if they actually get it properly. I always pay off my markers before I leave either with my winnings or a cheque from my $US account for my losses.

    Self employment shouldn't matter, unless your income is very low. They mainly just care that you have the money in the account to cover the marker that you sign.

    I think they did a credit pull on the first couple (but I wasn't really watching my credit score much back then). Then there hasn't been any until this year when I applied for credit at V/P. I can see that on my credit report. I'm not sure how much of an impact it had as I've been applying for credit cards recently for the sign up bonuses so my score has taken a bit of a hit. Nothing too huge, but I wouldn't do too many applications for other credit if you are looking to get a mortgage next year. It should have minimal impact on your mortgage app.
     
  10. pilot4300

    pilot4300 Tourist

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    I wouldn't worry about a casino-specific inquiry on your credit report being viewed differently than any other inquiry unless you are applying for a loan from the financial services arm of some kind of overly conservative religion or something. 99.9% of all other lending decision makers don't care that it looks like you are a gambler.

    When I've had a LOC application result in a hard credit inquiry, it showed up as "XYZ Casino Resort" on the report and wasn't disguised in any way.
     
  11. darrenfromindy

    darrenfromindy Low-Roller

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    I just wanted to say my experience was very similar to Patman’s: After my first casino credit/marker-signing privilege application, the only other casino that did a hard pull on my credit report was Venetian/Palazzo. I have these privileges currently at six places on the Strip, and two downtown.

    My experience (personally and anecdotally) is that you don’t necessarily have to have a great FICO score either. In 2009 my score dipped to the low/mid 600’s for a couple of years, but I was still able to establish credit at a couple of places during this period (I have a history dating back to the late 90s with Central Credit, though). They DO like high average daily balances.
     
  12. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    That’s interesting but not surprising, since you aren’t really applying for credit. They care if you have cash on hand now, not pristine credit history.
     
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  13. alexm

    alexm VIP Whale

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    @notfromconcentrate one thing to be aware of once you actually set the line up is that casinos want you to use it to play on their property. That is to say they don't want to offer you credit and then have you take that cash and go elsewhere with it. So anytime you take a marker, there is some expectation of play that will be expected. I know with CET they don't even want you going with that cash to another CET property. That may flag for you abusing the line which could result in them closing it. Also there is an expectation that the line will be used to some degree of frequency and not using it every so often (I think 12 months) may result in you having to reactivate or reapply. I only mention this because I'm not sure how often you plan to travel there, but it could be annoying to get there and find your line has been deactivated.
     
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  14. mrem3200

    mrem3200 VIP Whale

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    I never understood why this is. It's like having a Macy's credit card that works in one store but not another. Not that's its really hard, at one point I had LOC's at Paris, Flamingo and Cromwell. What I don't get is why I can't have a credit line that is good at all CET props?
     
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  15. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Each casino is a separate legal entity.

    EDIT: By that I mean, your line of credit is extended by, say, Caesars Palace (i.e., Desert Palace LLC), not by the parent company.
     
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  16. mrem3200

    mrem3200 VIP Whale

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    Yes, I understand what they do. I am just not sure why they do it. Why is my credit good at Bally's but not PH?
     
  17. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Because Bally's is a separate legal entity from PH. That's just how it is. Corporate org charts are incredibly complex in the casino industry for a variety of financial, operational, and regulatory/licensing reasons, but the bottom line is that for these purposes, they're all separate. It's not something Caesars, MGM, or Boyd is doing just to make everyone's lives more difficult.
     
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  18. alexm

    alexm VIP Whale

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    I suspect it has more to do with collection of payment than the actual extension of credit. Macys offers you some credit for their store, if you use it and don't pay they are out the product which was theirs to sell. If they let you use it at JCPenny, they would have to pay JC Penny for the product and try to enforce collection upon you, but theoretically be out actual cash money.

    Imagine getting the LOC at Ballys, from a table at PH losing the "fake money" (the marker) and then defaulting. PH still wants the real money from Ballys but Ballys didn't get the real money from you.

    For credit it's best to think of everyone as on their own not as CET
     
  19. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    It's somewhat that, but it's also more complex. There are restrictions on who can offer you credit in a casino and what legal entity can offer that credit. They need to be in compliance at all time with KYC as well. If you have an agreement with Ballys for a marker, technically, only Ballys has a draw on your bank account. say you want to play at Harrahs with that marker.

    Option 1: Can Harrahs issue me their own loan? Harrahs, a separate legal entity, can't assume anything about Bally's KYC process - they have their own money laundering risk management and reporting requirements. And, they have no ability to check your bank accounts/etc. at the time of credit extension since they don't have a written banking agreement with you (the marker).

    Option 2: Can Ballys have the Harrahs cage give me money? Ballys is limited from issuing credit at Harrahs - they aren't approved by gaming to offer any gaming operations there, they have separately managed financials, they don't have controls/oversight of Harrahs employees and operations, etc. It's the same reason they don't issue the markers from Caesars Parent Co.

    This explanation isn't perfect, but it gets to the complexity of why you have separate markers for each legal entity.
     
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