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Table Games 6:5 Blackjack

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Terry Benedict, Jan 1, 2014.

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  1. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

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    I'm a $10 player and i'll quit playing blackjack when the only game I can find is 6/5. I'll switch over to exclusively poker at that point.

    Offering decent odds at low stakes is what breeds bigger players. I think it's shortsighted to only care about the here and now. I used to be a $5 player and have graduated to $10 and occasionaly $15. As i've gotten older and my financial sitution has gotten better, i've moved up and will probably continue to move up. Had I either lost a lot in the beginning or didn't get much play for my buy in, I would have stopped gambling. So if my choices were high house edge games or high min stakes I would have tried it a few times and moved on (in the case of the high stakes, I may not have tried it at all).
    My point is.....Giving people a "good gamble" and some decent play for their money will keep them coming back and moving up in stakes.
     
  2. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    6/5 is not restricted to $5 tables as you suggest, nor to only single deck as the article quoted above suggests. That article looks like it could have been written 7 years ago. 6/5 is all over the strip, on shoe games, on $10+ minimums, etc. In another 20 years 3/2 probably won't exist at all, at any level. Maybe in high limit rooms. Maybe.
     
  3. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    I could argue they have the long con in mind. I doubt the casinos care if they lose you. There's an entire generation of gamblers just behind you who have known nothing but the prevalence of 6/5 and they will continue to play as their bankrolls get bigger. In 20 years 3/2 will be dead. Probably sooner. There was once a day where indignant gamblers crusaded against the dealer hitting on a soft 17 and you see where that got them.
     
  4. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I do get what you're saying with regards to $5 games. But one problem is that while its rare to find at $25+ tables, it is less rare than before. The trend is not favorable. Look at paperposter's recent thread about Cosmo on a Saturday night: https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101078

    All the DD games on the main floor were 6:5 and were $25 to $100, and he said they were busy. I played a little bit there last month during the daytime on a Fri or Sat and I think it was the same thing. At least for the DD games on the main floor. I had to ask at a shoe game if it was 3:2 because there were no markings and he told me it was but the other side of the pit was all 6:5 and I know some of them at least were $25+. I'm not worried about MGM changing to 6:5 on the DD games, but I wonder if they see places like Cosmo getting away with it, and PH getting away with H17 and no DAS on their high limit DD game, will some little sock sniffer at MGM decide they should make their DD game less friendly as well.

    Plus seeing 6:5 just cheapens the feel of a casino to me. Its like walking into a nice restaurant and seeing some dude in tank top with hairy shoulders.
     
  5. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    I'm not sure i would use anything Cosmo does gaming wise as an example of what's to come in other places.

    The other thing to note is that MOST quarter and up players are much more informed and better blackjack players vs. lower limit players (that's not a slight against those who play low limits, it's just that most people wwho are just learning or those who have no clue how to play, aren't going to sit down at a $25 table). The casinos are going to have a hard time getting those players to accept playing at a 6:5 table, and quite frankly it's still profitable enough for them at that limit that they don't need or want to chase those players off. In the rare instances I've seen 6:5 at a quarter or higher table, it's been completely empty. I can't say the same about the low limit tables. The guy flat betting $5 and drinking 5 drinks an hour isn't making them any money on a 1% edge game.

    Not defending 6:5 just offering a different perspective. Like I said, I'm interested if given the choice in my hypothetical what would people prefer?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014
  6. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    I'm a $10 player who looks for $5 minimums (for negative counts of -2 or worse). I will never, ever play a 6:5 table.
    And I don't have to.
    There is still great blackjack to be found - the Gold Coast offers $5 & $10 DD, 3:2 with DAS (H17), and there are plenty of these tables there.
    Downtown has the El Cortez, Plaza & LVC each offering 3:2 DD, DAS, H17 games, ranging from $3 minimum to $10. And all of the Boyd properties downtown offer $5 3:2 DD (no DAS, H17).

    But, with that said, were my options to be limited to $15 or $25 minimums in order to play a 3:2 DD game, that's what I would do...but only if I could not find a $5 or $10 shoe/CSM that offers 3:2, DAS, RSA and occasionally, even late surrender!
    6:5 blackjack is (arguably) worse for the player than UTH. If it comes down to it, I'll play UTH exclusively before I play 6:5 blackjack.
     
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  7. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Elvis has left the building

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    You can find good rules at the red chip level off strip & at the green chip level on strip, including many nice properties. Look for Double After Split, Surrender and Resplit Aces. For Green Chip, you can find Green Chip Dealer Stands on All 17s at the Gold Properties listed below.

    Red Chip
    Gold - El Cortez.
    Silver - Aliante, Green Valley Ranch, Red Rock, Silverton.
    Bronze - Excalibur, Gold Coast, Orleans, Palms, Treasure Island.

    Green Chip

    Gold - Aria, Bellagio, MGM Grand, Treasure Island, Wynn.
    Silver - LVH, Tropicana.
    Bronze - Don't bother - stick with Gold & if playing for easier comps Silver.

    Contrary to popular opinion, downtown has poor / below average blackjack rules, El Cortez being the exception for the recreational gambler. Downtown does offer far better Video Poker than the Strip for the nickel/quarter player.
     
  8. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    Viva...I'm curious as to why you would rate the El-Co "gold" while the Gold Coast ranks a "bronze". Their DD rules are identical, with similar minimums.

    Reviewing the wizard's 'survey' (updated today!), there are multiple properties downtown that offer 3:2 DD with DAS - at low minimums!
    Sure, the strip has some good tables, but the comparable DD games are all at high to very-high limits.

    http://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/?sort=loc&dir=asc
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
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  9. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Elvis has left the building

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    El Cortez single deck 0.19% > Gold Coast Double Deck 0.40%

    The "Silver" red chip casinos also offer a better game at $5 or $10 (DAS + resplit aces which is not offered at the Bronze casinos). My rankings are based on the best game regularly offered.

    California, MSS and Fremont do not offer DAS (0.53% games). Four Queens and Binion's games blow. You need green chip action at Golden Gate (and $15 @ Golden Nugget) to get the equivalent Gold Coast rules, the best rules offered at either casino. Plaza offers the same Gold Coast rules but it's a morgue.

    Bronze red chip casinos are still playable, and better than Strip offerings, but re-spliting aces (and the fact that they are also nice properties) make them silver. There are other Vegas valley casinos offering DAS/RSA at red chip levels, but they are mid/lower tiered properties.

    $25-$50 are reasonable minimums for double deck, DAS, Stand 17 strip games (i.e. Gold Games). Several Strip casinos offer worse rules at their Black/Purple Chip games than their green chip games.

    [YOUTUBE]MkGOrIBCcg4[/YOUTUBE]
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2014
  10. Oxygenator

    Oxygenator Low-Roller

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    The Wizards survey is Still full of errors for DT games as always. I just got back from a short 2 night trip.

    I played a long time at Vegas Clubs Double deck table. It is a $10 minimum, and has DAS. And has the best penetration by far of any DD game DT.

    No mention of the Golden Gates DD game now. A $50 minimum, with the same rules as Vegas Club, but you can get comp drinks of anything top shelf they have.

    DT grands DD game is $25 minimum, not 5.

    Golden Nugget has plenty of shoe games at $10 with the liberal rules like RSA, Surrender , etc. these limits will increase on busy nights.

    The D has a DD game, but minimum is 50 , not 10.

    Better to ignore that list, and do your own "Survey" when you get there IMO
     
  11. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    In spite of me making a big stink about this. They allow, or did, it at Suncoast. So I know they have it in them.

    I got the shift boss at MSS to tell him how incongruous this is with the "good gamble" mentality.
    It's such a small amount to give back to the gambler. And it is a fun move to do. It just takes away one of the enjoyable things you can do playing blackjack.
    He agreed of course, but shrugged his shoulders, it is what it is.
     
  12. dfalk

    dfalk VIP Whale

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    I'm sure I'll get some shit for this but I honestly could care less if a table if 6:5 or 3:2. I play BJ because it's fun and I can't play it anywhere close to home. I'm a low low roller and look for $5 and $10 tables, and I'm always on the strip. Are there better rules DT and off strip? Of course there are, but I don't care and am not leaving the strip the go find them. As stupid as this may sound, I play BJ to get drunk, have a good time, and socialize with people, if I win awesome, if I lose I don't care I'm on vacation and all that matters is I have a good time.
     
  13. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    I don't think it sounds stupid at all.

    Plenty of us are more than willing to pay more to stay at a hotel we like...or pay more for drinks at a bar we like...or pay more for a flight with no layovers/more convenient flight times. Why should it be any different when it comes to gambling where we like?
     
  14. merlin

    merlin MIA

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    You certainly have the right to your opinion, but most people dont brag about being foolish.
    I'm alot like you. I also play to get drunk, have a good time, and socialize, like the low limit tables, etc...but I'd rather win or at least hold my own.
     
  15. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    Like I have said above, I use to get mad at people like you. I figured that your type was what was enabling the spread of 6/5. But I have given up now.

    But in the past I would have tried to convince you that you can still accomplish your goals, and our goals of not giving in to "the man", by simply doing a little shopping around to find a good ruled table.
     
  16. TFK

    TFK High-Roller

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    No matter how you spin it, 6:5 is a sucker game. And if you're playing it, you're a sucker.

    TFK
     
  17. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Not necessarily. If I am at Monte Carlo or MGM Grand and hankering to play blackjack and they have a 3:2 table at my limit available then I'll play that... but if I am really looking to play blackjack and the only available seating is at a 6:5 table I'll probably still sit down and play rather than go somewhere else.

    The effective cost of playing 6:5 versus 3:2 is less than one betting unit per hour and to me that comes down to preferences: for me, I deem that to be a fair price to play at a nice property with a big casino and with a loyalty program that is important to me than wandering off and hoping I can find a better game somewhere else, which isn't even a guarantee I will find one unless I either move up in limits or go to a place I probably don't really want to play at and a casino points program I won't get any value out of.

    And the other thing to me is the cost to find that game: if I am at Monte Carlo and can only find 6:5 games at the $10 level and decide to go Downtown to The D or Fremont to play 3:2 that decision will earn me $9.50 an hour in additional equity by going with the better payout... but in cab fare its going to cost me $20 to get there and $20 to get back so I would have to play for more than four hours just to make the decision break even, IE: if I only played for 3 hours it would have been a smarter decision to play the 6:5 game at Monte Carlo.
     
  18. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    Evidently, only suckers understand basic arithmetic! :thumbsup:
     
  19. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Huh? Did I get something wrong there? Or did I just forget to factor in the cabbie will probably long haul me and the fare will really be more like $25? :)
     
  20. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    Lol. No. Just taking a :poke: at the poster who said anyone playing 6:5 is a sucker.
     
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