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Table Games 10x+ Odds on the Strip

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by cjcjcj, May 14, 2017.

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  1. cjcjcj

    cjcjcj High-Roller

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    I know of Cromwell and Casino Royale being 100x odds.

    Where else on the strip (or off I guess) do they have 10x+ odds?

    As I play more and more craps I realize how much more important maximizing odds(minimizing the HA) helps to making that bankroll last longer.

    My local offers 10x so instead of the usual 25 and 3/4/5x odds I will play $10 PL and max odds behind. Would like to do this next time in Vegas as well.
     
  2. Fet297

    Fet297 113 survivor North Vegas

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    Casino Royale is now only 3x4x5 odds.

    Downtown:

    Main Street Station is 20x odds. El Cortez is 10x odds.
     
    Will this trip get cancelled also??? Hope not.
    Will this trip get cancelled also??? Hope not.
  3. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I know SLS has one table that is 10x and one is 3-4-5x. Not sure if any others maybe Tropicana.
     
  4. woodsie

    woodsie VIP Whale

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    Golden Gate, Plaza, and Downtown Grand are also 10x odds. Downtown is a great place to roll.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Actually odds doesn't make your BR last longer at all. Betting the minimum on the pass line/come will help though. If you the want BR to survive the longest, even though it will be higher percentage edge vs. odds bets, you should avoid betting odds at all. Odds just increase your variance.

    One caveat to this is if you play at a casino that rates your odds bets (e.g. CET).
     
  6. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    Of course betting less will decrease your expected loss (or in the case of odds, decrease variance). However, the proper way to decrease expected loss is to decrease your pass line bet, but still take maximum odds. If the table minimum prevents you from doing that, it simply means your bankroll/desired bet is too small.

    To use an analogy, it's like playing Blackjack and saying "I can't split aces -- my bankroll is too small."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. cjcjcj

    cjcjcj High-Roller

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    That's what I was going for. Instead of a 25 PL bet with 3/4/5x. I play a 10 PL at 10x. Expected loss is lower and I play longer.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    Not to nitpick, but the bolded isn't accurate. Your expected loss is EXACTLY the same whether you take 3x odds, 10x odds, 100x odds, or no odds at all. For example, if you bet $10 on the pass line, your expected loss is going to be 14.1 cents per outcome regardless of how much you put behind it.
     
  9. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    I said to decrease your pass line bet AND increase your odds. That does indeed decrease your expected loss, as compared to the original, larger, pass line bet.
     
  10. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    The odds have absolutely nothing to do with your expected loss. It lowers your house advantage but that's only because you're increasing the denominator in the equation by having more money on the table. Your expected loss on a $10 PL bet is 14.1 cents whether you take no odds or 1000x odds.
     
  11. HardAte

    HardAte MIA

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    This is true, but the passline and odds bet are both dependent on the same # rolling to win. Therefore, you can look at them as one large bet. For instance, a $10 passline with $10 odds as opposed to $10 passline with $50 odds. Your variance is higher with $50 odds, but over thousands of rolls, your expected loss is less because you have a larger % of your total bet being exposed to ZERO house edge. 50% with $10 odds, 83.3% with $50 odds.
     
  12. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    Again not true. Your EXPECTED LOSS is exactly the same regardless of your odds. If you put a $10 PL bettor taking no odds (Player A), and a $10 PL bettor taking max odds (Player B), and simulated a billion rolls, both will have the EXACT SAME expected loss. I think you guys are just struggling with the concept of expected loss and HA. They are not the same thing. With a $10 PL bet both players above are expected to lose 14.1 cents per roll. The house advantage for Player A is 1.41%. The HA for Player B is .0012818%. However, when you apply that HA to each players bet, to determine their EXPECTED LOSS you get the following:

    Player A $10*1.41%=14.1 Cents
    Player B $110*.0012818%=14.1 Cents
     
  13. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    In any case, sizing the total amount you have in play relative to your bankroll is way more important than minimizing HA unless you are a hit & run player.
     
  14. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    The odds have nothing to do with your expected loss, **BUT** betting odds allows you to decrease your pass line bet, thereby decreasing your expected loss. The key is that you first decide how much you want to bet in total, THEN you use odds for as much of that bet as possible.

    Example #1: Bet $100 on pass line.
    Example #2. Bet $10 on pass line, and $90 on odds.

    The total bet is the same, yet the expected loss is (nearly) ten times as great with example #1.
     
  15. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    Yes if you want to bet $100 like in your example, you should find a table that allows you to get the $100 on the felt with the least amount on the PL.

    The point is that the $90 in odds doesn't make your expected loss any lower than if you simply reduced your PL bet to $10 and took no odds. What you and others have posted implies that you need to lay the odds in order to reduce your expected loss, which is not accurate. Any reduction in your PL bet will reduce your expected loss regardless of how much you put down for odds. I get what you're trying to say, but the reality is that the thought process that you need to have maximum odds on the craps table in order to minimize your expected loss is a false statement. What you're trying to say is that one shouldn't put anything more than the minimum on the PL until their odds are maxed out on said PL bet. That is not the same thing as saying you need to put the maximum down for odds in order to reduce your expected loss.
     
  16. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    That is most certainly NOT what I said. I said you should first determine how much you want to bet, and place as little as possible on the pass line. Your statement actually gives the impression (perhaps unintentionally) that it's OK to bet everything on the pass line, which is a big mistake.
     
  17. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    See HardAte's response for a great example of the misunderstanding most craps players have. That thought causes a player to think he needs to lay max odds on his PL bet otherwise he's losing more money. One should always minimize the amount of money he/she puts on the PL, but one does not have to maximize odds to minimize their expected loss. When it comes to expected loss the odds are completely irrelevant. Minimizing the PL bet is the ONLY thing that decreases your expected loss.
     
  18. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    That's correct -- which means that, for a given desired total bet, only a tiny fraction should be on the PL. If you're playing the PL with no odds, you've unnecessarily increased your PL bet, resulting in a larger expected loss.
     
  19. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    Adding the bolded part above makes it correct. Without that caveat, we're back to the same false narrative. Bottom line is minimize your PL bet. Odds have no place in this discussion.
     
  20. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Agreed.

    To minimize loss, one should bet the table minimum on the pass line/come and bet whatever amount of odds they personally feel comfortable with. To be technical, the don't pass/come is a slightly better wager, but then you have to be one of "those guys". Lol
     
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