Comps on Bubble/Electronic Craps

I am assuming that you are able to earn comps from playing bubble craps or electronic craps at the casino. Does anyone have any experience with this? Do you feel that you were fairly comped for your action? Was it better/worse/same then the equivalent action at a regular craps table?

 

Was showing the gf how to play craps on one of these at Monte Carlo a few weeks ago (she was too scared to try a $10 table at night), and there was a placard saying the machine doesn't award M life tier credits or express comps. I'm not sure why, they give comps for table games and slots. That definitely turned me off from those machines (other reasons being 30 seconds between rolls seems like FOREVER on these things, and field only pays double on 2 and 12).

 

Every one I've seen has the "No points earned or freeplay allowed on this machine" label.

 

I figured if nothing else they would comp closer to what a VP machine would pay in comps.

 

At El Cortez, it was $3 for 1 point (normally $1 for 1 on slots and VP). I don't know if that included the odds or not.

 

It's been a long time since I double checked this, but at CET properties, it was $45 wagered (odds excluded) per tier credit.

 

Games like electronic craps generally don't count towards comp earnings probably because the player/bettor can fake out the system by making "opposing" bets.... in craps, a player can make a $25 pass line bet AND a $25 don't pass bet...the system might credit the player $50 at risk per spin...the reality is only $25 was at risk and that's only on the come out roll, if a 12 is rolled on the come out, the pass bet loses and the don't bet pushes.

The risk on the come out roll (or any other roll) that a 12 is rolled: 1/36.

 

Do these machines really comp at a rate better than the combined pass/don't pass edge though? I would be shocked if they did. If they comp less than 1% of total amount wagered anyway, why not make money off idiots like that?

 

The ones in Reno used to...they lasted about a year before they severely cut the point earning...

 

Arghhh! Yes! I sent them an email suggesting that they put a "ready" button at each station. After you make your bet, and are ready for the roll, push the button. When all players do it, bang, the game starts.
It wouldn't help much at a full table probably, but it sure would when there were only one or two players. And you know the casinos would support speeding up play.

And yes, I was getting some points playing it at Paris.

 

The player isn't 'getting away' with something by betting pass and don't pass for the same amount. First, he can ONLY lose or break even, never win. (That seems pretty lame to me.) Second, both bets have a house advantage and the fact that the same person is making both bets doesn't wipe that out. His losses on the 12 ARE the house advantage.

Bubble craps gives zero or a low number of comp points merely because the game is a very low edge game, (way below 1% playing pass line and odds).

 

I completely agree. But at the same time casinos can be stupid enough to think they shouldn't comp on that. There have been threads in the past where people asked about having them and their friend bet opposite sides on baccarat to generate comps and I think it was shifter or someone who wrote that pit bosses knew that ploy and wouldn't rate those people. It makes no sense since those guys are guaranteed losers, just paying commissions on banker and never winning a hand. But apparently those pit critters think those players would be getting away with something.

 

The key problem with those players are usually the loss discount and comps when they play both sides. For example, using just one hand as an example (to make it easier). One guy bets 1m on player, one guy 1m banker. Player wins, guy that lost 1m on banker will get approx a 26% discount counting everything. Casino instantly loses 260k. Banker wins, casino loses 210k.

They actually have sophisticated groups of people trying to cheat on casino comps and discount, very hard to catch when they use many different faces though.

 

Good point, when you get to the level where loss discounts come into play the calculus changes since the individual players losses are just artificial. But the examples I remember were for more typical players betting something like $500 on each side. All they're getting is the normal 30% of theo in comps. So with a 46% chance of a banker win they are still expected to lose $500 * 0.46 * 0.05 = $11.50 per hand. Its roughly the same as the overall 1.2% house edge on their combined bet of $1000 per hand. A big difference being they are guaranteed not to win. So I would happily rate these players and not discourage the practice.

But yeah if loss discounts come into play they need to watch out for people playing both sides.

 

Clearly, making opposing bets is not a money making strategy...but, the OP's original question was about getting comps while playing electronic craps... making opposing bets may garner favorable comp offers, with relative low risk $wise to the player and IMO, that's why a casino may not count your action on this type of machine, though it may result in a negative return for the player from an outright betting perspective.

 

Just to interject: Betting do/don't on the come out is a rather clever (if boring) "hedge" strategy touted by John Patrick provided your goal is to lay full odds on the don't after the come out!

It is an ultra-conservartive style of "don't" betting that allows you to only be truly hurt by the 12...or a really hot shooter, which will kill any wrong bettor anyway...I've tried it before on 100X odds table and it worked okay, but you have to have a decent bankroll and be patient...

 

FYI, most people with a good knowledge of gaming math think John Patrick is a quack. He's similar to "Rob Singer" in video poker. Both of these guys biggest money-making endeavors is to sell books/other media no matter if the "system" works or not.

 

I pretty much agree, but that could be said about anyone touting a "system" in a negative expectation game...I was just pointing out that the "Do/Don't" style of play has some followers...The biggest hassle playing that way is the groans/eye rolls one gets from the dealers! :wink

 

I wonder if you don't get any at the electric roulette either. A friend of a friend sat at one for a LONG time betting both red and black. He was doing it because he was running low on his budget for the day, and wanted the drinks. Guess that's one "comp"

 

Having played the electronic games while I was there, you certainly get 0 recognition from MGM for playing Craps, Roulette or Blackjack.