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Has anyone ever seen a player cheat in a Casino?

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by Vegas24_7, Nov 16, 2021.

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  1. dubayuh

    dubayuh Newbie

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    Not sure it meets the criteria for actually cheating, but the sketchiest move I’ve ever seen from another player was at the craps table at New York New York a few years ago. The guy slides into an open spot beside me, and right away he’s chatting and joking around with everyone at the table, seems like the nicest guy in the world.

    He’s playing place bets and constantly calling them on and off at random times - nothing overly unusual there. But then he turns them on for the come out roll, and tells the dealer he’s always on for the come out. His plan became clear pretty quickly over the next few come out rolls - he was quick to remind them that he was working on a winner, but he was also counting on the dealers forgetting about his unusual bet on pass line winner 7’s.

    Got a chance to see exactly what the guy was all about shorty before he left the table. There was some good camaraderie at our end of the table, and just before a come out roll one of the other players (who I think legitimately didn’t realize what the scammer was up to and was just trying to be helpful) said to the dealer “Remember, he’s always on for the come out.” No more friendly guy, now he’s literally screaming at the other guy - “don’t you EVER talk about my bets!”

    Like I said, still not sure whether I’d actually say it was cheating, but sure felt unethical. Wasn’t sad to see him leave.
     
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  2. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    I take offense to this. I had a three-legged cat. Named it Trio. Mean cat, though. Didn't feel bad about getting rid of it. So maybe I don't take offense to this.
     
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  3. rhinoman7

    rhinoman7 A Diamond in the Ruff

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    Back when Free Bet BJ was new and opening up around the strip and DT, it was very common for the dealers to pay out when they hit to 22 instead of pushing the hands. No one every said anything.

    I did witness the results of some cheating, but never did find out exactly what happened. Was playing MS at my local a few years ago, and some suits came and pulled the guy next to me aside to talk. After some conversation and arguing as well a couple more suits joining, he was finally escorted out of the casino, and I did hear one of them say that he was banned from the casino. I believe the cheating had happened at a different table, since he wasn't at the MS table very long.
     
  4. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    I don't consider taking advantage of a sloppy dealer to be cheating.
    If he's inadvertently flashing his hole card, or paying me on a push, then that's not cheating, IMO.
    Now, full disclosure - most of the time, if I'm overpaid on a hand, I bet the overpaid winnings on the next hand...and keep doing so until it falls.
    (I also miss the 'early days' of UTH & Freebet... ~sigh~)
    :beer:
     
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  5. BigShot55

    BigShot55 Low-Roller

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    Playing craps at the D late on a Friday morning about 3 years ago. I was shooting from right end. As I picked up the dice I see a large stack of green in the field on opposite side. I roll an 8, and immediately the guy who placed the bet scooped up his losing stack. Yelling between him and boxman ensues before the guy runs out and escapes without security catching him.
     
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  6. dig

    dig Tourist

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    Do you remember when that UTH dealer flopped a full house on the table and he ended up having a higher pair in the hole and still paid everyone at the table....under the pit bosses watchful eye!:noangel:
     
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  7. Aces and Eights

    Aces and Eights VIP Whale

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    I always correct a dealer for not paying enough on a player's winning hands. And I don't say anything when they pay a player's losing hand. I find that a dealer paying a losing hand to be much less frequent than a dealer paying too little on a winning hand. Every time I'm at a table I end up correcting the dealer (sometimes multiple times) for paying a player off too little. I only see, maybe a couple of times a trip, that the dealer pays off a player's losing hand.
     
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  8. Vegaswanderer

    Vegaswanderer Low-Roller

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    I personally would not consider this cheating. The guy sounds pretty annoying, but I think actual cheating requires a much higher bar.
     
  9. Not at the table Carlos

    Not at the table Carlos Cheapskate

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    I played blackjack next to a guy at Bill’s Gambling Hall that would bet 3-5 red chips at first base. When the dealer would win without himself busting, he would take a chip off of his bet. When the dealer would bust he would add a chip to his stack. Saw him do it 3-4 times before he got up….I went straight to the pit boss and told him what was happening. Not sure if they were able to find him before he left.
     
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  10. rsanbal9

    rsanbal9 Tourist

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    Quite a few years ago, I played a lot of pai gow at Boulder Station--a lot--with a retired Filipino general. One night he was playing two hands of pai gow at once, and I saw him pick up one hand and then the other without setting them--strictly a no-no. I didn't pay any further attention as he frequently played two hands. Minutes later security came to the table, picked up his chips and walked him away.

    Later, when I was the last one at the table, a dealer told me he had taken a card from one hand and exchanged it with a card in the other hand, making a straight flush. The Fortune bonus pays 50X. The dealers thought he had done similar things before but could never be sure. The cameras focused on him and nailed him this time. Never saw him at any casino thereafter.

    BTW I only mentioned that he was Filipino because several Filipino dealers reported him as they were dismayed that he would do such a thing. This was also back in the days, late '90s, that playing pai gow was like a social club of retirees. You would see the same players at all the local casinos. One of the pit bosses called pai gow the park bench of Las Vegas.
     
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  11. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    And not only that, but the casino can get in massive amounts of trouble. There have also been lawsuits over this, where players who self-excluded were still allowed to play, lost money, and sued the casino. Regardless of whether or not this makes logical sense, it's the way it is.
     
  12. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Depends on the state.
    $75 here, $75 there, and soon you're talking real money!
    I've seen this happen with dealers, too. There are a lot of Filipino/Filipina staff throughout Vegas, and they're really proud of it and their community. I recently had a dealer positively light up when I asked if she was Filipina (I heard her speaking Tagalog).

    Overall, I lump minor dealer mistakes in with other retail mistakes. Just a couple weeks ago I was at a Chinese restaurant, someone ordered two egg rolls, and they gave him three. Not sure if the cashier was intentionally being nice, or just wasn't paying attention, but it's a pretty minor deal.
     
  13. dmr

    dmr Registered Abuser

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    In Iowa, if you self-exclude and are caught gambling, it's a trespass summons. This came from a casino shift manager.
     
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  14. azlefty

    azlefty VIP Whale

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    I almost posted the following as a on the thread about alleged employee theft / exploitation of unethical opportunities, as a comment that it such behavior is not limited to employees, but decided that this might be a better place:

    I'm curious to know what people consider cheating and unethical, v. fair game. What is the deciding factor? If you can get away with it? If another player is adversely affected? If your action would not be possible if staff were better trained or systems were in place to catch it? Occasionally I listen to a well-known podcast about advantage play which sometimes delves into methods that I would consider to be somewhat gray areas in terms of ethics. The subtext and often overt discussion about exploiting casinos' security gaps is interesting, but I found the speakers' apparent lack of ethical reservation to exploit security gaps or errors - as long as your mark is a casino - to be rather alarming.

    Here's a few examples from my own experience:

    1. About 5 years ago, someone who I thought was a slot technician was standing in front of one of the last slot machines at the El Cortez that used silver $1 tokens. I was about 10 feet away and wasn't paying him much notice. Then he walked away. About 10 seconds later, the machine started spitting out tokens as if it hit a jackpot. This I noticed. Nobody else did. I had never put any money into the machine.
    Question A: is it ethical to walk over and take the money the machine was disgorging? Would you do it?
    Question B: Suppose the person who walked away was a player who had been feeding money into the machine, not a slot tech, and this old mechanical machine was just a bit slow in paying. Does that change your answer?

    2. I was playing Hold'em poker next to someone who was pretty sloppy about covering their cards. I could see at least one and often both cards if I wanted to on every single hand. I'm pretty sure nobody else at the table could. Should I do anything about it? SHould I continue looking at the person's cards? Should I tell them? Should I share the info with the table? What is considered cheating and/or is it unethical?
    A: Suppose the person was an obnoxious drunk 21 year old with a huge chip stack. Does that change anything?
    B: Suppose the person was an elderly person who appeared to be down on their luck playing their last $20 from their social security payment for the month. Does that change anything?
    C: Suppose the person had just helped me by pointing out that I chopped a pot that was almost given to someone else by noticing that the board was the best hand, not the other player when neither I nor the dealer noticed this. Does that change anything?
     
  15. MangoPort

    MangoPort High-Roller

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    1A. The funds aren't yours. To whom they belong to isn't clear, but they aren't yours.
    1B. Funds still aren't yours, but the person it does belong to is clear. Still not yours.

    2A. It's against the rules & etiquette to have access to information that the rest of the table does not. Same way if someone mucks their cards and you see it, you should announce those cards to the table. In this case you may want to provide the person a warning that you saw their cards, but after that you should be letting the dealer know the cards were exposed. You don't owe the player anything because it was their actions, but you do owe the table that information.

    2B. Same as 2A, but now I'm sad.
    2C. Maybe give two warnings, but you are cheating the table by keeping that info to yourself.
     
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  16. booker

    booker VIP Whale

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    Mistaken post
     
  17. vegasmacker

    vegasmacker Canadian Ambassador for Sully's Bar

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    Other some poker collusion? No. Unless we count the time a hooker in Casino Royale tried to steal my cigarettes lol.
     
  18. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    The deciding factor for me is whether or not I must proactively take an action in order to receive money I shouldn't have won - if I do, then I consider that 'crossing the line'. I would never, for example, 'past-post' a "winning" bet, or remove a losing bet from the table when dealer isn't looking.
    If I don't (e.g. - the dealer pays me more than I should have been paid, or I catch a glimpse of their hole-card), then I consider that "fair game".

    I will never proactively harm another player's good fortune in being overpaid, but I will always call out the dealer for short-paying another player.

    In UTH, some casinos have signs posted stating "Do Not Show Cards to Other Players". It is rarely enforced. So, if a dealer or pit allows it, I will engage.
    If I am told not to, then I will not.
    :beer:
     
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