Table Games Crapless Craps... is this the how craps dies?

I remember reading about this game a long time ago, as it was something that Bob Stupak tried at his infamous "Vegas World" Casino. It was such a bad game that it quietly died. (Edit: Correction, I guess it stuck around at the Stratosphere and is still there)

Well, as they say, never give a sucker an even break. And as the Casinos learned with 6:5 blackjack, somehow even with all the information available on the internet, there are more suckers than ever! So I guess I should not be surprised to see Crapless craps making a come back. This week the game was going strong at both the Mandalay Bay and at the Luxor. And let me tell you conventioneers were packing into this game at the Luxor!

In case you are not aware of this game, it is one of those things that seems good at first: You can't lose on the come out roll! Instead of 2,3,12 losing, they become points. But also 11 becomes a point, and if you run the math the giving up the win on the 11 in exchange for a chance of winning on 2,3,12 is a bad bargain. Pass line house edge is a whopping 5.38% ! !

Have people seen this game at other chains? Is Caesars rolling this thing out?

I think it will take some time, but I do worry that this abomination is going to do to Craps what 6:5 did to blackjack. So get out there and play the real game while you still can!

 

No, because most people hate the game and won't play it.

 

Had it at harrahs in new orleans this summer.

 

They should hate it. But I was disappointed to see the damn things crowded.

 

I don't know if the tables are new on the South Strip, but this has existed periodically downtown and on the Strip.

 

As I have said before, I like crapless craps. It is and has been in Mississippi and Louisiana casinos for many years and is very popular. I admit that if you are a pass/come only bettor, than it is not the game for you. I am mainly a place bettor, and all place bets pay the same as a regular craps table. In Tunica, you can buy all the numbers(2,3,4,5,9,10,11,12) @ $10.
Also there is no don't pass in crapless.

 

There was a table in December at Harrah's Las Vegas outside The Piano Bar. I was there Sunday through Thursday during Rodeo week and it was never open the entire time I was there. Last summer, I asked a dealer to explain the game to me and just the explanation told me it was a bad deal. The table never had more than a few people playing when I walked past it last summer. It's like 6:5 blackjack, if you play at these tables, eventually regular craps will be gone.

 

There is a crapless craps table at Harrahs Tahoe but it opens up only when the other normal craps tables are packed. If I had no choice other than to play crapsless craps, I would just place the six and eight so I would still get the traditional decent odds on those numbers-- while avoiding the line bet. So no biggee to me.

 

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Good point (no pun intended !)

 

Last time this got brought up, there weren't a lot of Vegas casinos reported to have it. I don't expect it to spread like wildfire. Craps isn't like BJ where there isn't much effort in understanding the game, so those that play typically understand that crapless isn't the game they want to play.

There are a few tables out there and some folks may enjoy playing something different (and typically easier to get on a table), but I'm not one of those.

 

There are 2 crapless craps tables at Ameristar in East Chicago. One or sometimes both tables are open (especially at night) and both are busy. I remember in my youth, playing that game at The STRAT . Seemed like a good idea at the time. Could have been the alcohol though.

 

I know the math is there, but I can't get worked up about it.

Lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of craps players (and even more than that) make hardway bets on each roll, Fire, ATS, Field, buying 4/10, placing the 5/9 etc. EVERY ONE of those bets is 5% or worse. A vast majority of players play craps for the big hit. You can't get the big hit without outlay. Sevenout takes down just about every bet on the table, whether the point is a 6 or a 12. Sevenout rules the table.

So I am supposed to get all alarmed because my nickel line bet will lose an extra 3% in the very, very long run?

Is Crapless Craps a game to make the house more money? Sure.
Is Crapless Craps worse than most slot machines and almost every carnie table game. Nope.

 

Were these packed Crapsless tables at Mandalay Bay and Luxor at a lower limit in relation to the regular tables? Were there more people playing at Crapsless than the regular tables that were open?

I'm not too worried if it's an alternative in addition to the regular Craps tables, or if it's a way for casinos to offer a $5 table minimum and still make money. Doubt it will ever be as popular or take over like 6:5 blackjack. Plus 6:5 is just a payout difference that not many people can tell the difference between it and a 3:2 table, Crapsless is definitely an identifiably different game.

As you mentioned it was the conventioners packed into the table at Luxor. Most of the Craps players who come to town wouldn't touch it IMHO.

When I was at The Strat last trip the ONLY table they had open was Crapless... so I played blackjack!

 

Where can I get info as to what the payoff is for the 2,3,and 12 now that they are point numbers? Oh and the 11 too?

What are the payoffs when you play the passline or come and what are the payoffs when you place those numbers.

Is there still a field bet? Center bets still the same? Payoffs the same? Is there a website I can go to to learn all this stuff?

Should I google it? I know, I know, I should've just googled it. But I rather the info come from you guys. VMB'ers are smarter than google.

 

I played it on once and thought it was an interesting variation to a game I love.

I don't go looking to it but if wanting a fix and it's the only table around I will may play.

 

i just asked the floor (at mandalay) , they said they said placing the 2 and 12 pays 25 to 5 and the the 3,11 pays 13/5 . ( true odds are 6:1 and 3:1) . (they said they just changed it and it used to be 27:5 on the 2,12).

you can buy the 2 or 12 for a buck for a 20 bet.
edit:
these are pretty bad payouts . Some web sites say some places pay 11:2 for 2,12 and 11:4 for 3,11

 

If you find a place that collects the buy commission on the win, buying the rare numbers is about the lowest edge bet you'll ever find.

 

I don't math all that great, but I think 25 to 5 comes out pretty darn close to 5 to 1.

 

You're correct that the place odds suck, but 5% vig on a win only is actually great odds. If my math is good that results in a 0.71% house edge on the 2 and 12, and 1.25% on the 3 and 11. The variance will be wild, but that's what we play craps for anyway, right?

Amen brother. I may actually play a bit of this on my next trip just for the fun of it.

 

I played on the crapless table last Wednesday (and maybe Thursday) at Luxor. The main reason was that the regular table was jammed at $15; the crapless one was at $10.

I placed 6/8 most of the time. I also bought the 12 a couple of times and won it once. So, the house edge was pretty much not an issue since overall.