Help me solve a downtown comp puzzle! :)

Hi all. I wanted to get the board’s take on the curious way that comps played out for me on my first Vegas trip. So I suppose this is something of a trip report and a call for advice. Apologies if I have posted it in the wrong place.


In November of this year I was in Vegas for 5 days, and stayed at the D. I have the D a moderate amount of play my first two days, putting 1900 dollars through their 8/5 bonus poker machines and coming out a little over 200 dollars ahead, and playing through about 500 dollars on the blackjack tables and breaking just below even. My third day, I hit the 9/6 JoB machines at the Four Queens hard, running over 4 grand through. I hit two royal flushes in fast succession to finish over 2 grand up. I played through the free play that generated on the slots to try and give myself some “cover” to not be flagged as a skilled VP player. I wanted to seed something over at the El Co, so I went and max betted 100 bucks a hand on their 3/2 video blackjack machine (it’s a good play, earns points and comps at the same rate as VP), ran through about a grand, down 500. No biggie, I was still up almost 1700 on the trip. I also gave a miniscule amount of play to Boyd at the 9/6 machines at the boar’s head bar. I think I ran 200 dollars through there and came out 75 bucks down. So basically nothing at all as far as VP play is concerned there.


Fast forward to now as I plan my upcoming trip for June, and the level of offers that I am getting from places seems to be way out of wack. I have BOGO at the D with free play and food offers for this entire quarter. Perhaps that’s in line with what is normal, but I would have expected at least one comped night there. Astoundingly, I can get two comp nights at any of the downtown boyd properties and Sam’s Town, which made my jaw hit the floor when I saw it on my bconnected account. I got a mailer within two weeks from the El Cortez (before I even left home to come back to China) with Nords Malilay’s contact info in it. Emailed him about my trip in June, and he is comping me three nights in their renovated tower rooms with a fourth night at a casino rate (possibly comped depending on my play). I am really psyched about that, and Nords seemed like a really awesome guy.

I emailed Paul Klocke at the Four Queens to see what he could do, and all he could offer was to book the room at the normal rate now and told me to come see a host after my stay for a possible casino rate/ comped nights. Is this normal for the 4q at the level of play that I gave them? Are they possibly being cautious given that I walked away with a couple of grand of their money the first day I set foot in the door? I suppose I should add the caveat that it is possible I did get some mailers from the 4q. The 4q is *frustratingly* low tech. They only send paper mail and that goes to my house in the US. My parents try to keep an eye out but its possible they missed something.

So on my upcoming trip, I currently have three nights at MSS (two comped, one heavily discounted), one night at Sam’s Town (comp), and four nights at the El Co. Most of my play is going to be concentrated at the El Co and the 4q, since I have a double points up to 500 offer from the American Casino Guide, and that’s a great play. I plan to hit the player advantage 9/6 JoB at the 4q, and the video blackjack at the El Co. Might mix in a bit of 10/7 double bonus as well. I will play a moderate amount at Boyd since they appear to be generous with the room comps, even for Ruby players. I am considering canceling at Sam’s town and doing one of three things: 1) taking a comp night at the Cal since I am also curious to check it out. 2) Booking a south tower room at the 4q since, based on the numbers Paul gave me and that I see confirmed on here, I should easily qualify for a casino rate or perhaps even a comp night.


What are your thoughts on all of this, collective Vegas hive mind? Is the El Co a fan of people who come into their casino and lose, hence why I am getting the best offers from them despite giving them only a fraction of the play that I gave the 4q? Are the rooms at the 4q not nice enough to really sweat if I am getting room offers, given that their 9/6 JoB game is player advantage with cash back and comps? Do you think varying up my play a bit there might generate some better offers? Also, is anyone else who is Ruby getting generous comp nights from Boyd lately? Any idea how much play I would need to keep these offers coming in?

Sorry for the long, rambling post. Thanks in advance for everyone’s attention and help!

 

I have never had very good luck with Four Queens comps. In fact I stopped gambling there and while this may have changed as it was some years ago the host said they take a series of playing days and then average them to decide your reward. He recommended not having low play days. Hmm I went to the El Cortez after that. I want all my play to count. Just so you know I voted to cancel the Sams town as that area has really gone downhill surrounding that casino.

 

That's very helpful! And now that I think of it, I did have a day where I went into the Chicago brewing company, payed with comp dollars, but did not play. That could have also affected my mailers.

 

A note on 4Q, I run a bit more through than you do on VP, and have several trips in a row...they will still only offer me the casino rate on rooms, aside from a random mailer. Also I have never seen a host in the host office, you would have to ask for one at the pit or players club or something. My advice would be to take the room at the Cal, and play at 4Q if you want. The rooms at 4Q are pretty sad anyways in my opinion.

 

Your offer at El Cortez is not spectacular. I spoke to Nords about three years ago to lengthen my three day mailer offer into four days. He said sure, and comped about half of the fourth night. Ten years ago my rule was stay in the hotel with the free room, now my rule is play where I want a free room. I’m a fan of El Cortez, so that’s my vote.

 

Thanks! I only thought it was good based on how little play I gave them. I had always read that casinos are not interested in how much you win or lose for comp purposes, but if that is the case, my play didn't warrant anything at all from the El Co. I am planning to stay and play at the El Co no matter what, its just the one night I have booked at Sam's town that I am trying to figure out what to do with.

 

you need to play a little more at one place. Why are you trying to seed 4 places at once???

 

Fair point. It was my first trip to Vegas though. I was more feeling places out, and got a bit swept away in the atmosphere as well. Still curious as to how I got any comped nights at Boyd.

 

IMO, I would actually do this without cards. Decide what you like after 30 mins at each place. Then go get a card and pick your spot to crank at.

 

I've read a couple of your posts and I like your enthusiasm. Comp rooms are a good goal. I have stayed at all the Downtown properties at one time or another through the years and have some suggestions for your consideration. First the El C sounds like a lock and its a good place. However, they may be offering a teaser with the hope of more significant play to maintain future offers. In any case, go for their offer, and if you like staying and playing there, make it a base. Having a second place to allow longer stays Downtown with just a short walk across the steet is a good idea. I would recommend one of the Boyd properties. Boyd has several hotel choices and is consistant with room offers with a modest amount of regular play, not unlike CET on the strip. Unless things have changed, Boyd has a thing about home property which is where you initially signed up and that may not be your choice to stay; Joe, the Mayor of MSS, or someone more up to speed may be able to clearify. As for the 4Q, though the rooms are clean, there is nothing special about the 4Q to make it worth more effort. In genearal to insure future comp rooms, make sure you always use your card and play at least 4 hrs per day of stay. If you play table games, make sure you ask the pit what they rated you as you are coloring up. This will give you an idea of your average, which is sometimes negotiable if you were polite and toked, and it will insure that your play gets logged. Good Luck

 

I read a lot here about amounts and not much about time. Considering you were bouncing i cant imagine anyone got much of a chance at your money over time which is the biggest factor for comp consideration.

 

Another thing to consider! So the sense I am getting is that the offers I got are actually not too shabby considering how much I was bouncing around. This is all very helpful. I plan to concentrate my play at two properties (at most) this upcoming trip. The El Co will be my main one, provided that I like the renovated tower room. Now to decide if I should delve headlong into the 4q, or perhaps focus on Boyd despite having a snowballs chance of moving up a tier playing only VP. If I keep getting room offers, and I enjoy MSS (which I really do. The craft brew while playing is a big consideration for me since I would otherwise be spending a good deal of money on it elsewhere), perhaps Boyd is the way to go. I am loving his forum already. Thanks guys!

 

El C sounds like a teaser offer to me too. Go for it! But like Outsider said, 4 hours seems to be the magical marker downtown. It's better to play video poker or slots for 4 hours at 1.25 or $5 per spin for 3-4 hours than 10 spins of $100 each. It's not so much the money you walk in with vs the money you walk out with. Length of play counts for a lot.

For what it's worth, we did once ask for a host at 4Q to comp some room nights off at the back end and the host readily agreed. The problem was finding a host. As Grant mentioned above, finding a host in his office (just off the lobby) is a problem. They are rarely there so just make a point to check back often until you find someone there.

*Before I got a chance to post, Timothy made a post that makes sense. You were in and out so fast, they have no idea how you roll. They're taking a risk giving you an offer so be sure to take your time (3-4) hours per day at each place to seed your offers. It's not so much the amount of spend but the amount of time you spend there.

 

Thanks! What would your suggestion be as far as trying to seed 4q vs. Boyd?

 

@Timothy Miller has a valid point, but regardless of time, the theo is super low.

From your original post you played 10 hands of video black jack at the el cortez(" I wanted to seed something over at the El Co, so I went and max betted 100 bucks a hand on their 3/2 video blackjack machine (it’s a good play, earns points and comps at the same rate as VP), ran through about a grand, down 500") and they are offering you a great deal. That's where I would stay too. They are hoping you are willing to give them the 100 bet for hours, not 10 hands. If you are that's a great place, but also that kind of action could be good elsewhere too. Also even at a 2% hold in BlackJack, the theo for your 10 bets was $20.

From my understanding the 1900 played through The D over 2 days resulted in a theo of about 16 dollars. 8/5 bonus is a 99.17% game. Worse yet, this was over 2 days so an ADT of about 8 dollars.

At the 4queens your theo was also about $20, maybe a little better if you cycled any of your free play after converting it to real dollars.

And by frame of reference at boyd, theo is about $1.

The key here is that you may be overvaluing your play a little. Unless I'm misinterpreting what you meant by ran through the machine or there are typos and you're missing zeroes. Even for your whole downtown adventure your looking at a coin in of 7500 spread over 2 days. At 3750 a day, even on a 5% hold VP game you only generate about $190 in Theo.

All that being said if your plan is to play more in one place, then pick the place you want to be at, and let the chips fall where they may. I pick El Cortez beause I actually like the place, but if you're looking for more variety the cal is great because it's one of many Boyd properties. I play mostly at CET since they are close to home and have a lot of variety in LV.

Also, if you wanted to post what you expect to play at any of these places, some on this board who stay there regularly will probably be able to give you an idea of what you may get going forward.

 

I don't think I am overvaluing my play so much as underestimating the impact that the modest amount of play I gave should have feasibly generated in terms of comp offers. It was my first trip to Vegas. All of my previous gambling experience (four years of it) was in Macau, where I give a great deal more play, probably feeding my slightly skewed expectations in terms of comps in a market like downtown which could not be more different. Perhaps its a bit of over-enthusiasm for the experience of DTLV on my part is in play as well. Live and learn.

That's a very good suggestion about giving my estimated play for my next trip, Alex. And I don't mind at all. I expect to be putting at least 4k per day through the El Cortez video blackjack machine each day that I stay there. Probably with something like a 50 dollar per hand average bet. If I do decide to focus on a second property, be it Boyd or the 4q, I can easily manage 5k of coin in on 9/6 Job VP. I have a much bigger bankroll in general to work with this time around. Eager to get folks' thoughts on what this sort of play might generate if I was dedicated. Thanks!

 

As alexm mentioned above, I also believe you are overvaluing your play.

You played one day at the 4Q, put through $4K, earned 500 points. The 500 points is worth $25 cash and around $50 in comps...not bad at all. The $50 comp balance will cover the casino rate for a room on a weekday, so in effect you have gotten a comped room already.

With all due respect, $4K coin-in ain't a lot. Give them more coin-in and you will get mailers.

 

The numbers above are flexible, and per day at both the El Co and whatever other property I decide to give action to. Leaning toward Boyd now based on what I am hearing here. It seems like giving more coin-in is also a good idea. I actually have a large enough gambling bankroll, but on my last trip, I felt compelled to try and reserve it for Macau/Asia, which is closer to where I live and work and where I play a great deal more due to proximity. But if I want to be coming to DTLV more often, and I do, it seems worth it to invest more coin-in. I also enjoy playing video poker more than any other game, and it's not available at all in Asia. Thanks for all the help, everyone.

 

No offense taken at all, Don. Thanks for the advice!

 

Personally, I am over Boyd for whatever that is worth. I love 4 Queens, even with their mediocre (but clean) rooms, as all the places I have stayed downtown have mediocre rooms in my opinion. Nothing makes me happier than chasing quads at Mike's Bar, so I vote for staying there. I am not sure how much the room is when you are going, but I often see them for $35 or so, no resort fee, so even if you end up paying for it, no biggie.

The biggest thing I have learned from this forum and a few years of experimenting, is play where you want to stay and stay where you want to play. For me, learning not to spread my bankroll around has resulted in infinitely better comps.