Table Games How important are BJ Conditions vs just having fun?

Most of my play are slots but I consider myself proficient in BJ, I can play it asleep. Anyway I always wonder how much importance we should really put on table rules as leisure gamblers. I'm not talking as a professional gambler or someone who makes a living out of gambling, I'm talking leisure players who is expecting losses to begin with. Ideally everyone wound want a fun table with good rules of course but if given two choices- 1) a fun table, nice dealer, cool new casino with 6:5 or 2) old casino, empty/boring environment, crabby dealer with 3:2, which one would you rather sit on? I find myself going for #1.

Couple of times I was playing at a fun $10, 6:5 table and doing just even or little ahead and I'm betting $20-50. Dealer told me if I move to the $25 table, I can get 3:2. I usually say no because moving other there doesn't mean I'll carry over same vibe/luck (I don't know if everyone believe in this or not).

Second example, I go to a small but fun casino in Asia whenever I visit. $10 min, 3:2, dealer stay on soft 17. Downside is, only double on 9,10,11. I was thinking this is like high limit table rule in Vegas so I played on multiple occasions but still usually come home a loser. One or two times I played all 5 hands (they allowed it) and still got killed. And of course there are those time that you just never get a BJ to care about 6:5 or 3:2. These observations led me to question how important really are the rules if you weigh in the fun/enjoyment part. I myself don't care much about these minor stuff, I go for fun, I want a lively, friendly table.

 

Since I never get a Blackjack, it doesn't matter it's 3:2 or 6:5 or even 1:1.

 

I totally agree with you, what it comes down to for a leisure player, is to have a good time and hopefully be lucky. Not to shase better odds and be bored. Luck doesn't discriminate and gambling is about getting lucky or not. You can only really win with BJ, if you have a lucky run. And winning feels a lot better, when you are playing at a fun table and the players and dealers are happy with you.

 

6:5 vs. 3:2 is a non-issue for me. It's just blackjack. It's not a second job, it's not a revenue stream...it's just a game. I'd rather play at the 'fun' table in the cool casino. Our play is usually $10 ~ $15, if it's just me $25. We're there for entertainment.

 

To put it 'slot-machine' terms, would you rather play the machine that you love, which has a 70% pay-back, or an old machine that you don't really care for, but it has a 90% payback?

Sorry, but no - I will not play 6:5 "blackjack". There is absolutely no reason to do so.
After all, you've created a false dichotomy by suggesting "fun table" is 6:5 & crabby, boring non-fun table is 3:2. Poppycock!
There are plenty of very fun 3:2 tables all over Las Vegas, and I'm pretty sure I could find some incredibly boring, non-fun, crabby 6:5 tables.

So - what it really comes down to is this - Do you mind quadrupling the house advantage on a game?
I do.
Some don't... which is why 6:5 isn't going away anytime soon.

 

...by the way - just for information purposes:
$10 a hand, flat-betting, double-deck game, same rules, except one is 6:5 & the other is 3:2...let's say 30 hours of total play over the course of a trip.
70 hands per hour, at a 0.5% house advantage for everything except for 6:5 on black jack. Expected loss = $195.
70 hands per hour, at a 0.5% house advantage for everything, and 3:2 on black jack. Expected loss = $105.
$90 (the 6:5 impact) is 46% of the total loss for the 6:5 player.

 

I always prefer the game with the better rules. There are crabby dealers at all tabkes. Its always a risk. As for other players, I don't count on them to make it fun for me anyway

 

it's the ignorance of the people who posted above (other than topcard) who are causing the demise of any playable games in Vegas and elsewhere. as long as people don't use their brains to pick out a playable game, casinos will continue making games worse and these fools will continue playing them.

There are plenty of 'fun' 3:2 games to play (on the strip, and many more off-strip). and for all the people who say 'but i played three hands of 3:2 and lost all of them!' - surely you can't be so dense to think that's an appropriate sample size. 6:5 more than quadruples the house edge. there's no debating that. your minuscule individual results are meaningless, and the 6:5 edge will catch up to you as you keep playing.

You want dancing girls in lingerie dealing? Go to golden gate downtown. fun atmosphere, ALL 3:2, good drink service, and low minimums (often $5 or $10). Or you can play the caesars party pit, with the worst rules in all of vegas: 6:5, double on 9, 10, 11 only, and no double after split.

for a unique experience, try el cortez's single deck 3:2 game. it's the only one in vegas.

 

I fully understand your point. Where all things are equal in the environment, I will search out the 3:2 tables, with best possible rules. Hopefully find a table with like minded people where we can make some money and have some fun...

That said, last Saturday evening I played for 3+ hours at the Carnival Court. Temperature was perfect, the live band was great, beer was iced cold and the probably had the most attentive cocktail waitress I have ever seen! The other people at the table were having as much fun as I was. Had a real blast and was kind of sad when when everyone went their own ways....

Went inside the casino, found a double-deck game and went on a streak. Won a lot more money in less than an hour at dd 3:2, but I dont think I cracked a smile or laugh once.

So once in a while, I will justify playing 6:5 if everything else is awesome. When playing 6:5 i was playing with greens, where I bet black normally.

 

Not at all did the OP suggest that! He said: "Ideally everyone wound want a fun table with good rules of course but if given two choices". That's not implying fun tables with good rules don't exist. How I read it is, OP is just curious what we find more important, better odds or better vibe, IF we had to chose between.

 

I don't understand people, who judge other people for what/where/how they want to play. You will always be a loser with gambling in the long run, the more you play, the bigger loser you'll become. Some people just want to play occasionally, for entertainment and hopefully some luck. You cannot just say that nobody can play on the Strip anymore, so you can have better odds?! Just chill out and let everyone play where they want to play.

 

I see both sides of this argument. From a pure expected return standpoint, and from someone whose main goal is solely to win as much as possible (or lose as little is probably more accurate), the better rules game is always the preferred choice. However, I think what deansrobinson was saying is that he would rather gamble at the casino and environment where he gets the most enjoyment playing rather than go to a less desirable (to him) casino in order to get a better BJ game, despite the fact that it "costs" him more money. At the end of the day everyone has an expected loss, but the biggest loser is going to be the guy who had less fun gambling simply to reduce his expected loss. Again if that's your sole goal, or if you happen to prefer or enjoy the casino that offers the better game, that's fine too, but it doesn't mean it can be applied universally either. Now if we're talking about two tables in the same pit, in the same casino, at the same limit, and one offers 3:2 and the other 6:5, well then that dealer better be wildly entertaining at the 6:5 table.

To borrow your example above, what if we simply swap a couple things around:
You're in Vegas for three nights and want to eat a filet every night:
If you eat at Outback all three nights for $45 including tip, sides, drink etc. your total out of pocket dining costs for dinner for the trip are $135
If you eat at Heritage Steak across the street, each meal will cost you about $100 including tip, side, drink etc. and your total for the trip will be $300.
That's a $265 difference and 196% of the total expense for the guy who eats at Outback.

While you may argue that a card game is more uniform from casino to casino than a restaurant, that's only true if you don't care about or ignore things like the atmosphere, quality of the drinks, cleanliness/smokiness, comfort of the casino, etc. Just like the BJ example, if your main objective is to fill you stomach and move on and you don't care much about ambiance, quality of the steak, level of service, quality of drinks, etc. then just go to Outback and save yourself the money. However, if you do value those things, then don't go to Outback just so you can save some cash.

 

I will not play a 6:5 table. If I can't find a "fun" table at 3:2 anywhere (I play at all the CET casinos), then I guess I would give up and head for craps or VP. Sorry, that is just me.

 

I'm not going to preach and tell people what to play or not play, but think of it this way...

6:5 Blackjack is the gateway drug for casinos. If those tables are full then they try other things because it has not deterred anyone.

• Remove free odds from craps (Already done in places)
• Charge for parking (Already done)
• Add random spa fees, CNC fees, etc. (Already done)
• Add a "drink light" system for bar top Video Poker (Already done)
• Make player club rules worse, like BConnected (Already done)

The point is, as players if we don't push back and avoid things that are bad, casinos will keep pushing. What's next?

• Take away free drinks altogether?
• Raise resort fees?
• Raise room rates?
• Cut back staffing impacting customer service (i.e. housekeeping, players club desk)

As long as we still support things that are bad for the player, casinos will keep pushing out more bad stuff. So me personally, yeah, I avoid things that are bad for the player, even if that means avoiding 6:5 blackjack. But to the OPs point, I won't be bored for good odds, if I can't find a fun 3:2 table then I'll play full odss craps or something else that I don't feel like I am being screwed on.

 

That is actually a $165 difference.

 

If, let's say all of us here on VMB would boycot playing worse odds, would eliminate them, I would boycot them too. But we all now, we can't stop it, cause everybody else will play them regardless. Of course, like stackinchips puts it, when the two tables are next to each other, the choice is easy. But if you have to go out of your way to find better odds, then I don't see the point.

 

I'm fortunate, I play at the DT Boyd casinos and 3/2 $5 pitch BJ has been the norm, not the exception. Also usually fun/good dealers to play with, and most (but certainly never all) of your table mates are typically there for a fun time.

I've played 6/5 BJ when I'm looking to kill some time elsewhere. I will rarely play 6/5 for a longer session though.

JW

 

This is probably one of the most lucid, rational explanations that I've read for why it's necessary to avoid things that are bad for the patron. It reminds me of the quote “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.” The casinos will make every effort to maximize revenue. If patrons get pissed off but continue to come, it's not perfect but that is an acceptable outcome to the casino. The only preaching I will say is if you want to avoid the hassle that comes with finding a more advantageous game, hotel, parking, etc then don't get upset when your bankroll doesn't last as long or you feel nickel and dime by all the fees.

 

I used to not really care, as long as i got on a table. But over time, the 6:5 has started to bug me. I usually have a 3 night trip to Vegas, and 1 of those nights will have a good amount of time on fremont street. I will often wait and play my blackjack then. I don't go off strip or to Ellis Island to get a fix, i'd rather wait. However, if i'm in a Casino that offers 3:2 at a betting level that i am already at, I would rather play 3:2. The table is as fun as you make it, so down a few drinks and make it fun.

If i'm looking to just get a quick taste, i'll jump on a 6:5 table, but i'd prefer to avoid them.

 

I'd play a 6:5 table...hell, even a 1:1 table, if the casino would simply allow ALL pushes to be pushes... in other words, if I bust and the dealer busts, THAT's a push too!