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Table Games UTH Strategy

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by loonytoony, Feb 14, 2018.

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Do you follow this strategy? Please add your thoughts below

Poll closed Feb 28, 2018.
  1. Yes

    83.3%
  2. No

    16.7%
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  1. KnowItAll

    KnowItAll VIP Whale

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  2. QuaDxAceZ

    QuaDxAceZ High-Roller

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    I just got into UTH recently and stick to this stratgey. would like to see some thoughts of the more seasoned UTH players
     
  3. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    Being able to bet 4x your ante before the flop is a huge player advantage.
    The math has been done on when it is advantageous for you to do so...and it's reflected in that basic strategy card.

    About the only time I vary from basic strategy is on the river, when there is no pair on the board...There are times when I play with as low as a 9-high in my hand... oh, and when I have a pair after the flop, but the flop is 3 suited cards - book says to check...I always bet 2x.
     
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  4. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    Yes I follow this strategy for my hole cards. It's worth the time to learn the best 2X and 1X bets too. The James Grosjean card has all of the details.
     
  5. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    If you can't afford the bet, find a different game, because the limited house edge in this game is heavily dependent upon betting 4x whenever it makes sense.
     
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  6. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Money’s on the way, with CashNetUSA

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    Follow it strictly.
    Used to play more often but haven’t really lately.
    On a $5 minimum game you need $500 to play this game with any sort of chance to “weather” a storm
     
  7. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, it's definitely "swingier" than actually playing $1/$2 no limit holdem. On many hands you're going to have $30 sitting out there hoping you beat the dealer in 55/45 or 60/40 scenarios.
     
  8. NickyDim

    NickyDim Hockey is life

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    And after years of playing I've been burnt too many times on placing 4x pre flop. I found it easier to double my ante=blind and check my way thru the flop and then bet 2x if it turns out good, and I make the same winnings with far less risk. If the flop sucks as most do when I'm sitting on big slick, I can check my way to the river and if an choice card comes up I'm still betting the equivalent of a lower ante 2x. And of course a pair of cowboys allow you to bet 4x on the bigger bet.

    A win without the blind paying....
    5=5 +20(4x) wins you 25 10=10 + 20(2x) wins you 30
    and a win with the blind pays more.

    years and years of research and investment have proven this to be a far more beneficial approach.
     
  9. Jejas

    Jejas VIP Whale

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    I don’t follow the basic strategy.
    I just randomly raise 20x, 50x.
    BTW, my ante bet is 0, so the math is rather easy.
    So far I have been doing good, break even.
     
  10. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    you aren't making the same winnings, though, you're giving up an extra 2x on your most profitable hands. Assuming you bet 2x every time you should bet 4x, you're giving away over 15% of your total EV. Granted, you'd check more flops, but there's really no way this strategy produces a house edge of under 5% on the ante. Probably closer to 10%. This is not a game for scared money. Yes, your volatility is less, but you're losing more money per hour.

    The 4x hands are so important to your expected value. You can make the game a lot smaller by betting only 2x, but you're turning it into an unplayable carnival game from an EV standpoint by doing so.

    As an aside, it's probably good for the good players that so many people play it so badly, their profit on offering the game is acceptable for how low the house edge is.

    The real problem with this game is it is huge compared to the minimum bet - $5 ultimate is comparable to 20-25 dollar blackjack.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
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  11. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    Nicky...the problem with your strategy is the 'blind' bet.
    You are putting double at risk every hand, and only being paid on that bet with a straight or better.
    100% of the house edge is on that "blind" bet....(and the 'Trips' bet, of course!).

    The math really has already been done for you.
    Sure - it's a little scary to bet 4x with your K-5 or Q-8 off-suit, but in the long run, you will make more money doing so than you will checking. It's a great feeling to go 4x on your Q-8 and see those two 8s come out on the flop!

    My biggest variation from basic strategy is that I look for any reason to call (1x) on the river...so, if there's no pair on the board, and the dealer doesn't have pair, that bet is essentially "free". A typical example?
    Let's say I have a 9-7 off-suit and the board shows A-K-J-8-3, with no more than 2 suited.
    I will call on that hand & hope that the dealer has no pair. Dealer has a Q or 10 high? Yeah, I lose the hand, but push the ante...which is the same as my 1x call.

    I will also play on any paired card in my hand...even 2s or 3s.

    For me, the trick to this game is knowing when to leave. It sure seems like I always have a least a few "mini-runs", where I get up a bit. If I've already been playing a while, I'll take advantage of that opportunity & color-up.
    By the way, Tim mentioned a $500 buy-in for a $5 table... I tend to go with $300. (My average bet per hand is about $30, so that's 10x my average & 60x the ante. Seems sufficient for me for most sessions).
    If I get down to my last $100, I will go to '5-5-5', or even skip playing trips altogether. The first few hands, I typically go 10-10-5(trips). If I get up, I continue. If I don't, I'm usually down to that 5-5-5 pretty quick.
     
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  12. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royally Flushed

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    I use the Grosjean strategy card, so I answered "no" above, but it is pretty close to the same strategy, just has some more specifics that make it a little bit stronger.

    The part I always get caught up on is the river where you're counting the number of outs, etc.
     
  13. Laugh

    Laugh VIP Whale

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    I follow Jcarver. Religiously.
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    So...what are the differences from Shackleford?
     
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  15. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royally Flushed

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    The Grosjean card I believe has the same strategy for the first bet as shown in the strategy above, but then it has some more complicated rules than Shackleford for the second and third bets. A little stronger EV wise. I think Shackleford is 2.43% and Grosjean is 2.29%.
     
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  16. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    I try to use the "21" rule for the call on the river... usually, I just glance and make a quick guess, but I suspect I'm pretty close most of the time.
    For example, let's say I have a J-7 and board is showing A-K-9-8-2, with no more than two of any single suit.
    Cards that beat my Jack-high? 4 Qs, 3 As, 3 Ks, three 9s,8s and 2s = 19. I call.
    On the other hand, if I have the same hand & the board is showing Q-10-6-4-2, I fold. (3x5, + 4 As & 4 Ks = 23).

    As for the 2x bet, post-flop, I play with any board-paired card in my hand (or better). Otherwise, I check.
     
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  17. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

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    Just as a quick note (re: the "21" rule):
    The idea is that, if there are more than 21 possible cards that will beat you, you fold on the river.
    When there's no board pair, it's very simple - all 5 cards have 3 companions, so that's 15 right there.
    Then, you have any other cards that beat your high card, and multiply by 4.
    If you get to "22", fold.
    At 21 or less, call.

    Now, with a board pair, it's just a little bit trickier, but the concept is the same. Ignore possible straights/flushes (unless there are 4 of a straight or flush), and just count the cards that will pair the board-cards, or beat your high card.
    So - let's say you have a Jack-high & the board is A-A-Q-8-9. 3x3 =9, plus 3 Qs, plus 4 Ks... that's 16...call...even with a 10-high, there's only 20 cards that beat you. Call.

    I have stretched this a few times, and called on "23" or "22", but that's usually because I have some knowledge of other players' cards... or that I just feel lucky.
     
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  18. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    I think you're both playing a different game from UTH.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
  19. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    It's the same for your hole cards and some of the 2X / 1X bets. It adds a few things for making the 2X bet when you have 4 to a flush and you have a J+ hole card and folding bottom pairs against a 4F board. It's also kind of aggressive on a no-pair board using 21 outs, whereas I've been sticking to 18 outs.
     
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