Table Games Craps heaters... set or chunk?

Just wondering of all the memorable long rolls everyone's been apart of/witnessed, was the shooter setting the dice or just letting them fly? I usually set the dice with pretty decent results but thinking this next trip I might just leave it all up to the dice gods

 

Most of the long rolls I've witnessed and I've had as the shooter have been set. I think one can have the skill to influence a roll if they don't hit the back wall of the table. Eventually, the boss and dealers will make you hit the back wall on your rolls which will throw off your skilled roll.

 

I've never seen a setter go on a heater.

I've had a good number of 30 - 45 min rolls. I just take the dice however the stick pushes them to me (which is usually the point number). Pick 'em up with fingertips and lob 'em into the far end of the come box. I use the same motion all the time, but I'm not really trying to do anything other than not have them take out a stack of chips.

Only time I fiddle with the dice is if one flips over while the stick is pushing them to me and they're showing seven. And the only reason I do it is so no one will complain I should have, lol.

 

In my experiences about even. Some were dice setters and some were chuckers. Like Chuck2009x does I take em like they are pushed to me and I lob them at that back wall, trying to keep the same motion and rhythm.

 

The few long rolls that I've had this is what I do. It seams like if I try to "set" the dice, I 7out sooner. But, if I just gently lob them without trying anything, I do better.

 

I've been on four super long heaters that I can remember with 10+ points. None of them were setters and three of them were wild novice shooters who often sailed them off the table and broke all of the superstitions that die hard craps players adhere to.

 

I've had some nice rolls "setting" the dice, but here's the thing......I "set" them almost all of the time. This week, I was at the local 4 days. The first two days, my luck was lousy, so I decided to just chuck the dice. I had five or six real nice rolls doing that, including a long one yesterday on the way out the door.

I guess the dice don't care how you treat them.

 

Inherently, it is mathematically provable that dice setters are more likely to go on 30+ minute heaters.

This is because the longer they spend fiddling with the dice, the fewer rolls it will take them to reach the half-hour mark.

 

Ha ha, exactly. Craps players would like to believe there is an "edge" of some sort by dice setting. And they will subconsciously remember long rolls with dice "setters" and forget long rolls with "chuckers". I don't care if shooters set the dice or not but in the long run it makes no difference.

 

Shooters that "throw" the dice with a consistent motion, whether it's dice setting before hand or just picking them up as the stickman presents the dice, have been the most memorable....the shooters that use a chuck and duck or chicken feeding throw have been less than memorable...

 

I usually set the dice and I went on some heaters but other times I didn't last that long. If you follow the rules (hitting the back wall) I think the odds of a heater are about the same whether you set the dice or chunk them.

I've seen different throws. One guy throws the dice high up in the air, the dice probably goes at least 5 or 6 feet in the air. It doesn't hit the back wall most of the time but I guess they allow it because there is no "setting" of the dice to make the throw. The funny thing is that this guy is a member of the golden arm club and he did it more than once. Another guy throws the dice as hard as he can, once he missed the table and it probably went 30 feet past the table

 

I've definitely seen both! The longest recorded Crap roll in history was 154 rolls over 4 hours by a random tosser playing the game for the second time!

I think there is a general misconception that "dice influence" or "dice control" is all about setting the dice. It's not. It's a combo of the set, repeatable throw, release of the dice, hitting a targeted area and getting the dice to stay together without randomizing. I'm still a bit skeptical of it, but I sure as hell know that only setting the dice isn't going to get you anywhere. The other misconception is that the goal of dice influence is to go on a super long heater. It's not. The idea is to statistically throw less sevens than random chance, therefore overcoming the low house edge. A secondary goal is to track your rolls over time and discover what other numbers you throw more often than chance and bet accordingly on those numbers.

 

This reminds me of a time playing a few years back at Flamingo. The shooter was on a nice roll. Pretty consistent rhythmic toss. He hit a few points. In comes a new box man and he starts ragging on him for how high the dice are being thrown.

Anyway, the shooter goes ballistic. Tells the crew where to stick it and he’s “out of here”. So the he takes down his bets and starts winging the dice as hard as he could against the back wall just to try to seven out. The only problem was he kept hitting numbers for about a good 15 minutes. It was quite comical.

 

I've been apart of both. First timers (and even savvy players) who grip and rip and others who set.

I'm a setter but I don't do it because I think I'm influencing- I do it because I'm a weirdo who likes a rhythm when doing something. You baseball fans know what I'm talking about - the whole charade the batter does before each pitch? Nomar and his endless fiddling with his batting gloves? That's me when shooting dice. Nothing elaborate but I like to have my rhythm. If I grip and rip it just doesn't feel right.

I will say that sometimes I can make the dice hit numbers based on the set. Not as often as I'd like but I have had some success particularly when aiming for hardways and outside numbers.

 

The difference needed to improve your odds by setting is so small that the argument will never be answered. Personally, I get the dice and they are flying: watch your hands and your late bets. If the dealers don't correct a late bettor I will make a point of delaying the game so I don't hit hands. If someone else is shooting I generally don't care. By the time I get to the craps table I am tired of making decisions (video poker) and I just want to stand, look around, get some cocktails and spend time on the comp clock. As for heaters either way, make two points and I up my bet. And repeat. With this method one hot horse can erase an hours worth of chop.

 

I set the dice usually to 5:5 on the top with 1:1 facing me. It's doesn't make a blind bit of difference to the roll in my opinion, except this... I notice that when I seven out, it seems to be mostly 6:1. My roll is consistent generally but I do it out of habit and preference rather than a strategy. It's simply how I like to roll. My best rolls have been when I'm trying to hit an exact spot on the back wall. I don't however believe in dice influencing because ultimately dice tumble when it hits the back wall. This thread is focused on whether you have a longer roll depending on how the dice are thrown. I don't believe either gives you a "longer" roll, but you seem to remember the heater rolls more
favorably when the dice are thrown beautifully and consistently. It's the point at which when something different is done and the table "panicks" because something is different. That's what I remember. The late bet going in or hands going into the pit, affecting the time and throw of the dice. We don't generally like any of that when a heater is on, because we don't like to change the variables. I'm sure it doesn't make any difference at all, but we feel as though it does and our memory will recall that. Random rollers or dice setters...the ongoing discussions from this! Well, if the casinos allow you to set dice and request you hit the back wall, then they clearly don't believe there's any advantage in dice setting and they are the ones with enough statistical knowledge to know whether there's an advantage. More to the point, many places I have played don't like dice setting because it slows the game down. If their expectation of a decision is 140 rolls per hour, then slower play will reduce the amount the casino will make based on the house advantage/edge per roll. So they want a faster game. Ultimately that game slows as the table fills up and a hot shoot is in progress. Ultimately I don't care how someone else throws the dice. I can choose whether to bet or not. What matters is the outcome! And in my opinion, it doesn't make any difference with respect to longevity of roll, other than a dice setter will
take a little more time than a random roller. This gives the appearance of a longer roll as someone stated earlier. Furthermore, dice setters generally have more knowledge on the game and tend to play a tighter game, so it appears that it's a more profitable roll for the shooter. Ultimately it's the focus on your bets and how you bet that will determine whether in your mind a roll was successful or not, and that may influence your belief over setting the dice or not (and therefore whether one method is longer or better than the other).

The only time I get bothered when shooting is when a don't player (no issues at all with don't bettors) or someone comes in during the shoot and forces their way in, bets late, gets their hand in the way, and is generally annoying to those on the pass line through disrupting the flow of the game. Either I wait and really slow down the game as I'm shooting, or I'm going for the hand when I throw, and those dice are sharp...

 

I usually put the dice squarely together, tap them on the felt once and throw. I try not to pay attention to what number is showing. I like to throw back hand with my right hand so I try to find a spot to the stickman's left.

 

I do this when I'm the shooter and I see a player making late bets or is not paying attention to the game. Granted, they may be new to the game and don't know any better but that's how I learned to keep my hands away when the shooter has the dice.

Somebody has to teach them, might as well be me.

 

Yeah I pretty much agree with all of this. It's been awhile since there was a calm discussion about this stuff, lol, it usually degenerates.

But my takeaways are:

• I don't think setting does anything by itself.
  
• I think you definitely could develop a shooting technique that influences the result enough to give you an advantage; you just can't get away with it for long, because it's dependent on having the dice not tumble or hit the wall, and so it should be pretty obvious. If it's not obvious, it probably doesn't work. But in this case, setting could be part of your technique.
  
• Annoyances while shooting, etc. - if the table's packed, or there's inexperienced players, or as you get further into a hot roll, that's when you get the hands and the late bets, etc. If people are futzing around, I just wait. I never feel like the dice or the table are hot and I gotta shoot right away; I'd just as soon extend the time. Chip changeouts, new buy-ins, players disputing a payout or asking a dealer questions, I don't mind waiting. I never get any shit from the box for waiting, probably because I always make a dealer bet when I shoot.

 

Anyone who believes dice setting makes a difference must believe that bull shit that guys like John Patrick sell.