CTR's Currency transaction report

Saw this from a friend... Anyone know the answers?


Some friends and I just saw an article on CTR's.. We thought this would be the place for answers other than calling the IRS.

Lets say you bring in 9700 in cash to the cage at 10am deposit it and go play. . No CTR we know. You take out a 5000 marker, play and win 5001. You take the 5001 in chips to the cashier and put it back on deposit. CTR due to the 24 hour rule?

Or, You wire 25k to the casino, you take out a marker for 11k, color up and take the chips to the cage for redeposit, Same answer as above?

Or, deposit 9900 in cash. 21 hours later you deposit 3000 in cash. CTR?

Or, you saved some chips from a previous trip. Come and deposit 15k in chips, is that a CTR?

Does the cashier fill out the form every time someone gives 10k or more every time! No matter what? Does the computer automatically notify their business office upstairs to fill out a form?

Is the time clock for a 24 hour period 12:01 midnight to 12:01 midnight? Or from the time of deposit?

Don't you think in this day and age 10k cash just isn't that much to have this law in effect? Probably 50k is more reasonable. If a drug lord or some nut wants to rip off society they would be doingit with more cash than 10k in cash?

 

Well theres the rules and how they are applied
generally speaking hitting 10k in currency, not chips within any 24 hr period will trigger a CTR
theres also supposedly some lower reporting form that might get triggers at a shade over 3K, but before a CTR

either way the IRS roundfiles these mostly unless your name is already linked to structuring/RICO or other stuff
so unless you're trying not to claim them as income, who cares?

 

All of those except for the one where you deposit chips would require a CTR. The CTR recognizes cash transactions both ways, it doesn't have to just be in one direction.

I've posted this link in the past and if you go through it its by far the most comprehensive. Its FinCEN's dedicated section specifically for casinos: http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/casinos/

On one hand I agree that 10k cash seems like a fairly low threshold. But if you think about it as we move more and more towards cashless payment systems the 10k can look even more questionable then it did in the past when 10k was worth a lot more. So you can make the argument either way.

The truly arcane law is the $1200 trigger for W2s on slots. It pretty much handcuffs anyone playing moderately higher limits. But that's a whole different subject.

 

Agree. just thought it was interesting. Just another "Big brother" situation watching over us all. Which for homeland security and criminal activity sake I have no problem with.

 

Nothing you do with chips or markers triggers a CTR.

Chips are not cash.

 

If you moved around 9900 in cash it mauy set off a red flag. I worked in banking for a number of years and activity like this would set off an alarm of trying to avoid the CTR and thus a SAR (suspicious activity report, which casinos also use) would be filed. Not saying that this would happen but if you: Deposited 9900 or a number close in cash, it may set off a red flag. Especially as casinos are a bit more on edge recently since the Trump Taj in AC got in some trouble for not filing prudent CTRs/

 

Here is the FINCEN link. It provides some insight into CTRs. http://www.fincen.gov/whatsnew/html/ctr_faqs.html

 

Chips are not cash.

Also, don't push the limit. Don't do 9,700. They can issue a CTR just on the appearance of avoiding the limit. Stick to 8,500 or so.

 

Most of us know it it possible to accumulate over 10k in chips on a hot streak. Some individual table bets can generate over 10k w/o a W2-g. Is a CTR generated at the cage when you cash them in and not at the table?

 

only if you take cash.

a CTR is only designed to create a paper trail with cash, which is otherwise untraceable.

if you have them give you a check or wire the funds, there's already a paper trail.

honestly the IRS gets millions of CTRs and they mean nothing.

they only look at the paper trail if they are otherwise looking at something.

SAR is a different story. you don't want those. and trying to avoid a CTR can easily get you one, which is really stupid.

 

The CTR is a record of cash. So if you cash the 10k of chips at the cage it is generated, if you buy-in for the 10k at the table it is generated. If you bought in for 2k and ran it up to 10k nothing is generated at the table because the 10k cash wasn't reached, but it will be when you go and cash the chips. And if you bought in for 10k cash at the tables and then broke even and cashed out your 10k chips at the cage you would generate 2 CTRs,

 

also, let's be clear: it's OVER 10k.

10k exactly does not generate a CTR.

10,001 does.

 

This is a key thing to remember. You don't want an SAR filed on you even if it doesn't lead to anything. And if you look at the casino guidelines they're advised to file an SAR for anything suspicious including things like asking them about the CTR rules or asking them about their 24 hour gaming day. You're better off just not thinking about it and trying not to be sneaky when your transactions are all above board.

 

Curious, Why is this soooo secret? Are we privy to that info? Sheeesh. Cant ask any questions or you get the feeling you will be incarcerated. There are millions generated a year. Who cares.

 

Illuminati.

 

Structuring, tax evasion, money laundering...etc

basically if you're asking?, they think you're up to something. if you're not up to anything?, don't worry
you can throw that CTR on the floor along with a losing sports bet ticket

unless you win big and want to take it with you through the TSA line to prove where it came from