Table Games "Double Draw Poker" table game? strategy?

Delaware just introduced a new table game that I cannot even find on wizardofodds. Its called Double Draw Poker. Now, my google searches are only yielding video poker games, which this is not.

One site lists the basics of the game found below

Double Draw Poker
Object of the Game
Double Draw Poker is played with a standard 52-card deck and 2 Jokers. The Jokers can be used as an Ace or to complete a “Straight” or “Flush”, but not for pairs or trips.. The player gets two chances to draw cards to complete their 5 card poker hand.
Ante & Bonus Bets
After the player makes an “Ante” and “Bonus” bet of equal value, the player is dealt five cards face down. After the player views their five cards, they may choose to fold forfeiting their Ante and Bonus bets.
-IF-
The player wants to continue, they must make an additional “Draw” bet equal in size to the “Ante” bet and now has the option of discarding up to 3 of their cards and draw additional cards equal to the number of cards they discarded.
The player again has the option to fold forfeiting all their bets.
-IF-
The player wants to continue they must make another “Draw” bet equal in size to “Ante” bet and now has the option of discarding and drawing one additional card.
The dealer will now turn the players five cards over and pay according to the following pay table”
Ante and Draw Bets pay 1 to 1 with Two Pair or better
BONUS PAY TABLE

Five Aces 500-1
Natural Royal Flush 100-1
Straight Flush 50-1
Four of a Kind 20-1
Full House 5-1
Flush 3-1
Straight 12-1
Three of a Kind 1-1
Two Pair Push

Click to expand...

problem is, I'm looking for a strategy, if there is one. I watched some people play this carnival game, and burn through their $100-200 in short order (betting the $5 minimum).:confused2: Therefore, I think I'll just wait this one out, and avoid that game for now.

I think the problem with this game is that you must have 2 pair or better in order to get paid. And the $5 minimum turns into $15+5 bonus if you play all the way through.

wrxrob said:

Delaware just introduced a new table game that I cannot even find on wizardofodds. Its called Double Draw Poker. Now, my google searches are only yielding video poker games, which this is not.

One site lists the basics of the game found below
BONUS PAY TABLE

Five Aces 500-1
Natural Royal Flush 100-1
Straight Flush 50-1
Four of a Kind 20-1
Full House 5-1
Flush 3-1
Straight 12-1
Three of a Kind 1-1
Two Pair Push

problem is, I'm looking for a strategy, if there is one. I watched some people play this carnival game, and burn through their $100-200 in short order (betting the $5 minimum).:confused2: Therefore, I think I'll just wait this one out, and avoid that game for now.

I think the problem with this game is that you must have 2 pair or better in order to get paid. And the $5 minimum turns into $15+5 bonus if you play all the way through.

Click to expand...

Send an e-mail to the Wizard and I bet he'll try to work out a strategy.

Here's what I'd do:
I'd fold any initial hand that didn't have a pair or 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush. (Note the large bonus for straights).

I'd fold if after the first draw I didn't have a paying hand, except 4 to a straight flush/royal flush.

But that's just a WAG.

Also, if the minimum is $5, it really is $10, because it seems you must make both the Ante and Bonus bet to start the game. Play to the end and you have $20 on the table.

I predict you end up folding off the bat or after the first draw A LOT. The two jokers do help, however.

That's a typo on the straight, right? You don't really get 12-1. Is that supposed to be 2-1? Because if it's 12-1, you should pretty much be playing for straights I think, especially if you've got a joker.

If this game shows up in Vegas, I'll play it.

Essentially, you can have up to 9 cards to make a two-pair or better?

I'd probably play every hand that started with a pair (or better) and draw all the way through.

Playing 3-card straights and flushes would be a little tougher, as your first draw would only be two cards.

So - I agree that if one does not have either an initial pair ~or~ 4 cards of a straight or flush, folding would be in order. (I would make an exception to the "4-to-straight or flush" rule if it were 3 cards to straight-flush, or if I had a joker.)

If it's there on my next Vegas trip, (June?) I'll play it and report back here.

At least you don't play the dealer in this game, so the casino math is less difficult.

As Wade said, you're probably going to see at least one draw with any pair. Otherwise this game would require players to fold way, way too much. Also I am assuming straights pay 2-1 here on the bonus bet paytable.

So lets look at 1 pair hands first. Also I am assuming Ace + Joker can be a pair of Aces since 5 Aces is a payout in the game.

Place Ante and Bonus bets:

If we fold immediately, we lose two units.

If we pay one unit and draw three, here are the probabilities to improve in the worst case scenario, discarding one ace/joker:

Four of a kind: 1*47 = 47 combos
Full house: 2*1 + 1*10 + 9*4 + 2*9*6 + 2*2*3 + 2*1*10 = 188 combos
Three of a kind: 2*(C(47,2) - 9*6 - 2*3 - 1*10) = 2022 combos
Two Pair: 9*6*43 + 1*10*42 + 2*3*44 = 3006 combos
No improvement: C(9,3)*4^3 + C(9,2)*4^2*2*3 + C(9;2)*4^2*1*5 + 9*4*1*5*2*3 + 9*4*3*3 + 5*3*3 = 13,161
combos

Total combos: 18,424

Sanity check: C(49, 3) = 49*48*47/6 = 18424

Now lets determine the payouts. Remember, we will always see the hand to completion if we improve.

Four of a Kind: 47/18,424*(20 + 3) = 0.0586734694
Full House: 18/18,424*(5+3) = 0.0816326531


Now with Three of a Kind and 2 pair, we will have to take redraws of 1 card each.

Three of a Kind: 2*5*42 = 420 combos (Ax or Joker-x) will give us 4 outs to a full house and one out to quads; 2*C(9,2)*4*4 + 2*9*4*2*3 = 1584 of these combos give us 3 outs to a full house and one out to quads. 2*3*3 = 18 of these combos give us 2 outs for a full house and one out to quads.

420/18,424*(1/46)*(20+3) + 420/18,424*(4/46)*(5+3) + 420/18,424*(41/46)*(1+3) + 1584/18,424*(1/46)*(20+3) + 1584/18,424*(3/46)*(5+3) + 18/18,424*(42/46)*(1+3) + 1584/18,424*(1/46)*(20+3) + 18/18,424*(2/46)*(5+3) + 18/18,424*(43/46)*(1+3) = 0.2469227284

Two pair: 1*10*42 = 420 of the combos will have 5 outs for a boat, 9*6*43 = 2322 of the combos will have 4 outs for a boat and 2*3*44 = 264 of the combos will have 3 outs for a boat.

420/18,424*(5/46)*(5+3) + 420/18,424*(41/46)*(0+3) + 2322/18,424*(4/46)*(5+3) + 2322/18,424*(42/46)*(0+3) + 264/18,424*(3/46)*(5+3) + 264/18,424*(43/46)*(0+3) = 0.5613283241

No improvement:
13,161/18,424*(-3) = -2.1430199739


Summing all of this together:
4 of a Kind: 0.0586734694
Full House: 0.0816326531
Three of a Kind: 0.2469227284
Two Pair: 0.5613283241
No improvement: -2.1430199739
Total from drawing: -1.194462799
Total from immediately folding: -2.000

Although drawing with a pair is not a winning play, it is better than the other option of folding and losing 2 units immediately. So draw every pair for at least one draw.

Now, we probably should double check that it's not optimal to draw a single pair again with no improvement.

So looking at the best no improvement scenario, holding an ace/joker and another card that has three outs available:
(2/46)*(1+3) + (7/46)*(0+3) - (37/46)*(4) = -2.5869565217
This is STILL better than folding after the first draw, which will cause you to lose 3 units.

The best no improvement scenario without ace/joker:
(2/46)*(1+3) + (6/46)*(0+3) - (38/46)*(4) = -2.7391304348


If we already discarded one of our two pair outs on a previous draw, then the EV becomes:
(2/46)*(1+3) + (5/46)*(0+3) - (39/46)*(4) = -2.840909
STILL better than folding and automatically losing 3 units.

If we already discarded two of our two pair outs (highly, highly unlikely): You have to have something like 77852 and redraw the 8, 5, and 2 AGAIN!
(2/46)*(1+3) + (4/46)*(0+3) - (40/46)*(4) = -3.0434782609.
So in this rare scenario, it's a fold, but this will happen so rarely, we are better off ignoring it.


So yep, draw down with any pair the ENTIRE way. This is going to be a rough game variance wise for sure.

I'll look into more of this later. Correcting my math since I forgot the damn "Bugs" was quite enough for one evening.