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Table Games You Be The Floor Person

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Naturaleight, Jun 23, 2013.

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  1. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    I'm playing double deck with another guy. Its my first time at this property. Guy on 2nd base surrenders his hand. Next hand I want to surrender my 16 and the floor person realizes you cannot surrender on double deck and does not let me. So we realize at this point the order of the cards are messed up because 2nd base would have hit his surrendered hand before. What should the ruling be? Should I be given the option to back out of my 16 now that the order of the cards is messed up? Should play just continue? Should they allow me to surrender this one time?

    Post your ruling.
     
  2. ronc

    ronc High-Roller

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    Same Rules for Everyone...

    Sorry...misread original post...

    My thought would be that the original player got away with one and you have to play by the rules as they are set for that table.

    If cards have been seen that make it impossible to play the hand "fairly" (under the normal rules), invalidate the hand.
     
  3. Loonar

    Loonar Low-Roller

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    If I was the floor person, I would give you the option of taking back your bet, plus anyone else who wants out of the hand, then kill the remainder of the decks by having a new shuffle. I think that would be the most fair way of handling it. I guess one could argue that the other player "might" have stayed on his surrendered hand in which case the cards would still be in the same order.
     
  4. Darreningreenwood

    Darreningreenwood Low-Roller

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    Since it's only you two at the table, I'd let you surrender as well. Dealer throw's away their hand, and move on.

    This is assuming that it's on the same "round". If it's on your next bet, then I'd give you a one time surrender, and make sure both of you know that's it. I would not give you your money back for a bet that was lost when you've already placed another.

    I'm not a fan of "well, he took that card, which means he took that, and thus I got this." You get into waaaaay too many hypotheticals.
     
  5. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Folks often assume that a change in the "order" will impact the next player. That next card can just as easily HELP the player as HURT them - it has no idea that it is out of order.
     
  6. Darreningreenwood

    Darreningreenwood Low-Roller

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    Exactly. The cards aren't going to move after being shuffled. That next card has just as much a chance of being the card you need as the card before or after.
     
  7. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    We know each card is random no matter what. But from the perspective of the casino for cases like this, gamblers use that logic of "what could have been" which is why the casino doesn't wanna get into crazy hypotheticals so usually will just kill the hands and shuffle as not to upset anyone.
     
  8. Kort Jester

    Kort Jester Low-Roller

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    Out of order.

    I'm out of order?
    Your out of order ...the whole damn deck is out of order!!!

    Since player one got a surender I would give you ONE if it is during the same hand .

    Of course talk to the dealer when they push .

    In any case I would have the dealer shuffle after the hand.

    My concern would be to treat ALL players the same.


    Funny how players stop bitching about out of order if the next hand deals them a BJ....
     
  9. Naturaleight

    Naturaleight High-Roller

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    So true. Gamblers will be gamblers...
     
  10. Keyser Soze

    Keyser Soze Low-Roller

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    If you believe in the "order of the cards" nonsense, I'd strongly recommend you never play blackjack ever again.

    You should thank me. I just saved you a ton on money.
     
  11. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    correct answer and ive seen it happen al the time and thats what they do when theres a mistake .you can keep your hands and move on or just start over.
    ive had dealer flip both cards by mistake and weve been given the option to play on on or not .
     
  12. vegasqc

    vegasqc VIP Whale

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    Play should just continue
     
  13. AndShock

    AndShock Tourist

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    Anytime an "order of the cards" incident happens at any local casino, the dealer will call the Floor and the Floor has always instructed the dealer to deal out the hand and then gives the players the option to pull back their bet. I figured this was the norm, but I was playing in Vegas and the dealer had dealt the hand, 1st base hits and gets a 10. Then the dealer decides to check for blackjack, which it was and he takes all of the cards. 1st base was pretty upset that he got screwed out of the 10 and the dealer pretty much said "too bad so sad." At any of the local casinos 1st base would've definitely either been given the 10 or the next hand everyone would've had the option to pull back their bet.
     
  14. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    The real question is why are you playing a crappy ass game that doesn't allow surrender?
     
  15. RC

    RC Low-Roller

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    The OP said that he was playing double deck. There is no double deck game worth playing that I know of that allows surrender in Vegas. There are however many double deck games that are far from crappy in Vegas.
     
  16. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    You would have to be in high limit room to get a 2 deck game with surrender. Very rare to find in Vegas actually. For example, in the MB high limit room ($200 min), there is a 6 deck and a 2 deck game. All the rules the same, except no surrender on the 2 deck game.
     
  17. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    As for the original question, I would do nothing because it was not on the same hand. At most, I would be willing to allow a shuffle if both players at the table requested/agreed.
     
  18. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    The correct answer is:
    You allow any player that wishes to surrender on that hand to do so, with a clear reminder that surrender is not permitted from that point forward. As soon as the hand is over, change dealers, re-shuffle and start fresh.

    Normally, when a dealer error is made,(such as forgetting to give herself a hole-card) the pit will void the hand, reshuffle and start over. In this case, the house comes out ahead by permitting surrender, so that is what I suspect they would do...either that or tell you that the mistake made earlier is in the past - not permitting surrender is proper application of the table's rules - and the other guy was simply fortunate that the dealer improperly permitted it.
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  19. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    Loonar and Topcard's answers are good. That's what good customer service oriented casinos do.

    But the player has no right to those things really. What if a dealer made an error and paid on a 22 or some other mis-pay? You know that the next player does not have the right to say, "You screwed up and paid him for his bust, now pay me too."
     
  20. RC

    RC Low-Roller

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    Since the first player has already been allowed to surrender, that hand is past history. That was obviously a dealer mistake on that hand. You can't allow the OP to surrender his hand as it was not during the same hand as the guy that was allowed to surrender.

    To me the best solution is to allow the OP to take back his bet if he wants to and then shuffle up and move on with the game ...
     
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