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Table Games wiped out playing don't pass

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by patroyal2014, Feb 26, 2014.

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  1. patroyal2014

    patroyal2014 Tourist

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    i got my butt kicked last night playing don't pass. a portion of what killed me were the 7s rolled during the come-out. several yo-levens were rolled too. it's ironic, that i am playing to see a 7 roll, but the 7 would wipe out a portion of my bet. then a few shooters rolled their 4 and 10 points, which made my bankroll even smaller. could not recover the losses. walked away.

    should i have made a prop bet on the any seven to protect against my dp bet? i always thought prop bets were sucker bets.
     
  2. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

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    Mathematically hedge bets are not good bets. I do see a lot of people make them, whether they are playing pass or don't pass. They consider it cheap insurance. Any 7 has a house edge of 16.67%. Even when used in conjunction with a Don't bet, it's not good.
     
  3. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    I'll say this once bc I've always wanted to say it in Vegas but haven't had the guys... "GOOD! That's what you get for betting against the rest of the table."

    Otherwise, to each their own. Especially the guy that lost $4k in 5 minutes betting against the table at ARIA on my last trip. Karma is a... Well you know the rest.
     
  4. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    There's no mathematical difference to what you're doing, but I prefer betting nothing on the come-out roll and then betting several don't come bets. This way if they do roll the 7 on the comeout, any remaining don't comes that you still have alive get paid on the comeout 7. But you get the same effect when you put up a don't come and a 7 is rolled. Only the 'old' don't comes get paid, and you lose your chip on the new one.

    The other reason to not play the initial don't pass is that you aren't rooting against the point number, so when it gets rolled, it might have no effect for you, thus you don't feel so sad when everyone else is happy.

    I usually get 3 numbers active and limit my odds bets to 2x. You can really get a lot of money out there at risk if you play 3x4x5x. If you end up with these numbers: 6, 5, 4 each for $5 you'd have $90 in odds.
     
  5. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    I'm not a huge fan of hedge bets, but if you do want to go that route, do a 3 number 7 (2-5, 6-1, 3-4) hop bet by splitting your any 7 bet 3 ways, it's a better payoff. The only downside is that you usually have to bet a bit more to split evenly 3 ways. $6 on any seven pays 4:1 for $24, $2 hop bet ($6 total to cover all 3 numbers) pays 15:1 for $30
     
  6. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Then I will just say this one time: wagering on the don't is NOT betting against the rest of the table. It's still betting against the house. Just like when you're playing roulette and some spins different people bet on red and different people bet on black. Some will win and some will lose. But you're not betting against one another
     
  7. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    He's just mad your have a lower HA than he does. :evillaugh (That said, I'm a PL player and rarely play the don't because I find that side less fun). I don't even mind if don't players celebrate a win so long as it's not directed at me, just as I would never go up to the don't player and say something negative to him when I win. I'm too preoccupied mourning the loss of all my chips when they get paid out anyways. :beer:
     
  8. numeno

    numeno VIP Whale

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    I guess I just feel that your bankroll might have been a little low if the losses were mainly on the come out rolls.

    Bad streaks happen though on both sides.
     
  9. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

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    @UKFanatic - exactly right.

    Same people that tell me at the blackjack table we are a team and need to play like one. GTFO:grrr:

    I always respond with, "so are we going to share wins and losses at the end?"
     
  10. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Any time I am at any table and I win, but others lose, I don't celebrate. There are many games at the casino where one gambler can win and the other loses based on which bet they each elect to make. I just don't understand why the don't at craps elicits such a venomous response from a lot of players when the other side wins. In the past, I shared the story on here of a woman that threw a drink at me once when I was playing the don't and she lost. I can't imagine anyone at the roulette or bac table doing that just because I bet the other side form them.

    If you play the pass line and win, awesome, be happy. But don't gloat at those who lost. Understand we are all playing against the house, not each other
     
  11. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    Relax everyone! It was a joke. I don't care how you lose your money the same way you don't care how I lose mine. While you're not technically betting against the table as say you would if you bank in Pai Gow, most players are playing the pass line so in theory you are betting/hoping they lose but that is your choice. As for the comment about blackjack being a team, never a team but at the same time it's nice to have people there that stick to the book and keep their HA and the table can get on a roll like a team.

    Take the joke for what it was and relax. I forgot there must not be much sense of humor on the board, must be because its hump day?
     
  12. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    I've always wondered if there is this kind of animosity in baccarat, I rarely play it and only for short sessions (read: play a random hand at the table next to me during a pai gow poker session...I"ve lost too much money leaning over and throwing a bet down on the next table, on a side note, I'm surprised the pit lets me do this.)

    I was betting next to a dark side player this last trip and I would be happy to see someone got paid on a seven out. We would congratulate each other on wins and joke about the losses. We even teamed up to tip the dealers, I would place the pass tip and he would place the odds. It was strange hanging out when one would win and the other would lose, but there's no reason to have ill will towards each other, it's not like dark side players cause the table to lose, they are just making money when it does.
     
  13. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    I think UK just takes it a bit personally because dark side players get a lot of negativity thrown their way.

    I also had an occasion where a gentleman was banking in pai gow poker and betting 10-15x the rest of the table combined. He would bank, win against the dealer, and lose to the rest of us. He was very good natured about it and congratulated us, win-win.
     
  14. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    Comes with the territory I guess, they are referred to as "dark side players" or "wrong bettors" for a reason. But like I said, to each their own. I'll stick to the pass line because I go to the craps table for camaraderie and a good time because in the end the casino is always going to win.
     
  15. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    That's what it is. Because while you may be joking (tone is always difficult to decipher online!) some people are not. I have had a drink thrown at me, cursed at, threatened with physical violence, and all because I made a bet against the house. And I'm one of the quiet darkside players, lol!

    It does bug me a bit when players perpetuate an opinion, but treat it as fact (and a false fact at that!). While Klawrey may have been joking, some people are foolish enough to believe that kind of stuff. Just like we sometimes see posts that fly in the face of all mathematics (seems like there is a lot of that in baccarat and those infallible gambling systems :poke: ). There's a big difference between saying I don't play darkside because it makes me feel like I am going against other players and people who say they won't play darkside because it is betting against other players. That being said, I will relax :thumbsup:
     
  16. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    That's a good question and I suspect the answer is there is definitely a lot of superstition at baccarat. Most Asian players want to be on the same side. I'm not exactly sure why, but it is clearly something to do with superstition or tradition. If any of them have ever bad mouthed me for being on the other side, I didn't know it because I don't speak the language. That's why when I play at a table with other players, I make sure to get my bet out there first. That way, hopefully, they cannot think I am betting "against" them. If I bet first, I am not "against" anybody
     
  17. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    It is not enough that I should succeed. Others must fail. :Þ
     
  18. JustNgo

    JustNgo Low-Roller

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    Does this mean you would throw a drink in UK's face after you win and he loses? :poke:
     
  19. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Exactly. That's how I play if I happen to be at a bacc table where everybody else is Asian and not speaking any English.

    I'm sure it doesn't stop them from (possibly) cursing me out when they all bet the other way and I win, but I don't really give a shit; I'll even pass turning over the cards to someone else if it happens to be my privilege.
     
  20. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Personally, I truly enjoy seeing dark side players revel in their success at the tables. They have as much of a right to enjoy their winning as anyone else.

    I'll venture to the dark side once in a while, but it is too much of a grind to have much fun, at least for me.

    I have always been amazed at the hostility towards "don't" bettors. It's not like they affect the outcome of the dice in the remotest of possibilities.

    That being said, if a "don't" bettor is in other people's faces that is another matter. But if a dark side player shows excitement when he wins than good for him.

    :peace: :beer:
     
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