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Winner = No backend comps

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Aftermath, Dec 30, 2013.

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  1. Aftermath

    Aftermath Low-Roller

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    So I just came back from my trip to Bellagio this past weekend.

    My host set me up with a basic room and some F&B.

    Had a very good run on BJ - 6 Deck - H17.

    I brought a bankroll of $15k, but only needed to buy in for $700 as that was what was in my pocket at the time.

    I one shotted it and won. Let it ride and won. Bet half of that and won again.

    Started playing $500 hands after that, dropping down to $300 during bad runs.

    Cashed out $23,000.

    I was rated at 13 hours @ $475 a hand.

    My host was nowhere to be found so I walked into the host office and kindly asked if they could comp anything off the backend (discretionary comps) based on my play and he looked in the system, smirked and said "Looks like you won a few mortgage payments this trip".

    Since this was a winning trip, the best he said he could do was apply my Express Comps towards my bill like as if he was doing me a favor. :Þ

    I told him no thanks and walked to the checkout counter and applied them myself.

    If anyone remembers my debacle at Aria a few months ago you'll see a pattern forming.

    I'm taking a break from MGM properties and going to try Wynn or Cosmo.
     
  2. hillwood24

    hillwood24 High-Roller

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    If they're gonna act like that, what's the point of theoretical?


    Great win, though.
     
  3. Crazycrue

    Crazycrue Low-Roller

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    Sounds like that is becoming a typical theme in Vegas. They are happy to take our money but when it comes down to it they really don't want to do anything for someone who wins once and awhile. I guess the trend away from gambling is part of this. It's too bad too because it ruins it for everyone.

    That same thing happened to my friend when we went with him in October, I lost and got decent comps he came out ahead and has gotten very poor offers since and they didn't want to comp him much. That was MLife as well.

    So I guess that's the future of gaming. We can't be losers all the time they should comp based on all play not just one trip. Just saying.

    I am sure someone on here will have more insight into this but I agree there is a trend.
     
  4. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Congrats on the sweet win! A $23k win from a $700 buy-in is bananas.

    Did you ask what your theo was? How many ECs and TCs did you earn?
     
  5. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Wow. Anytime I make a 3300% return on my initial buyin and never buyin again, I think I will be happy no matter what they on my way out the door!!

    But to your point, I think I already posted a similar comment on your aria thread (or someone else's Aria thread): hosts are being encouraged by corporate to pay for F&B out of express comps first. Your host has discretion to take it out of primary comps (assuming the play warrants it), but they have to justify it to their bosses. So there's basically no chance, in a situation like this, of the host on call doing that favor for you. At the start of my trip, I always find out if my host is on duty when I am planning to check out (or the night before if I am checking out super early). if he or she is not, then I still text them before I check out. Don't rely on the host on call. Check with the host that knows you and values your play
     
  6. Aftermath

    Aftermath Low-Roller

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    Rough estimate, but EC was around $150, TC around 125,000.
     
  7. MidnightBJ

    MidnightBJ Low-Roller

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    It appears pretty obvious that MGM has added win/loss into the comp equation - with wins having a negative impact on comps. My last year and a half experiences have followed that pattern. After a big loss, my prior host solicited my business and invited me to bellagio and after having a big win acted like he had over comped me. This is after I wagered almost double the average bet that he had seen from my prior losing trip. Hours played were similar, but one was a five figure loss and the other was a five figure win.

    Now, I am at aria and got a new host, who is nice. I was offered a modest upfront comp on my initial trip that covered all of my expenses, but I left a good amount of discretionary comps on the table since I didn't need them. I had a very nice 5 figure win and played way over my normal average. Now I am returning in February to aria again. My host is offering a very limited upfront comp that I could get by on, but is much less than I would expect based on past play. Right now, I am a little miffed and will be reevaluating my future in vegas and how I play. I have upped my play to more than $500 per hand and feel like I am begging for $150/day in comps. I may back down to around $100 hand and just take comps as they come via marketing (which I have not gotten any marketing offers from vegas properties since my last trip).
     
  8. Aftermath

    Aftermath Low-Roller

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    Here's a pic of my take from the weekend.

    Had to cash in $9,000 right away in order to give me 24hours between my next cash-in to avoid the CTR, SAR and MTR. :thumbsup:

    [​IMG]

    And a giant teddy bear I won @ Circus Circus for knocking over 3 milk bottles with a small bean bag.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    Thunder buddies for life!
     
  10. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    I've really nothing to add, except what others have said...its a huge trend going with NOT Theo for comps.. But ACTUAL win/loss plays more of a role now.. If you lose big, then you'll get some decent comps...however if you win...well, you won so they see it as you can comp yourself!
    Used to be, if you WON you'd get comped, because after all...how else are they supposed to get their money back?
    But, Aftermath, it seems like you've got a couple miracle wins at MLife, so it may be logged in the computer, that your "lucky" and MGM can't win from you...
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  11. Aftermath

    Aftermath Low-Roller

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    :confused:
     
  12. Aftermath

    Aftermath Low-Roller

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    I guess they magically forgot about all those 5 figure losses. :poke:
     
  13. hillwood24

    hillwood24 High-Roller

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    I always lose, so at least I won't have to worry about my comps being downgraded.
     
  14. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Discretionary comps from a host on duty are pretty much not forthcoming at Bellagio or Aria, ever, absent an outrageous loss. Email your own host as your theo warrants and they can rebate your card retroactively.
     
  15. dfalk

    dfalk VIP Whale

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    [YOUTUBE]G9PnNW56bp0[/YOUTUBE]
     
  16. Aftermath

    Aftermath Low-Roller

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    Yup, already emailed my host and awaiting a response.
     
  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I've have seen the data screens the hosts check when they bring up your profile and about four months ago I even saw a screen breaking down a big players comps that was accidentally emailed to me (thank you auto complete!). Trust me, there is no part of the equation for "luck" or wins. Whenever you ask a host to comp stuff on the backend from your primary comps, it is at the host's discretion. They check the standard theo formulas to know your play and whether you even have any significant primary comps that are unused, but they are not making the decision to give you primary comps based on how lucky you have been at the tables. Some of my most significant back end comps have come during trips with my biggest wins. All my hosts cared about was keeping me happy and bringing that money back to their casino on a future trip. I have had frank discussions with my Bellagio host about his compensation and he has confirmed for me on multiple occasions that his bonus is based, in part, on theo. Actual win/loss has nothing to do with his personal bonus.

    There is inconsistency with primary comps because the hosts are under pressure to make you use your EC (I have been told that this for accounting reasons, but I have no real idea if that is accurate or not). If a host is giving out so many primary comps that he has to start explaining it to his or her boss, it only makes sense that they are going to save the primary comps for their players, not strangers. There's not really any mystery or secret formula here. :hmmm: Its just marketing. If you're unhappy with the comps, as the OP has experienced over his past couple trips, try one of the other companies (which sounds like what he is going to do). In the past when I have been unhappy with the inconsistent comps I received, I sought out new properties and/or new hosts. :soapbox:

    Getting off my soapbox for a moment, I wonder if stinginess with back end comps may be a result of the Vegas market regaining strength. After all, comps are not guarantees. No casino ever has to offer a single one of us a comp. They do it for marketing. Its all part of how they lure us to Vegas. And with Vegas revenue rebounding in recent years, I wonder if the casino companies don't want to hand out so many comps because they feel like they are getting to get our money anyway? Just a thought. In the Vegas mid-2000's heyday, I was low rolling and never got much in comps anyway. So I don't know how today compares to eight years ago.
     
  18. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Congrats on the win! And now a little unsolicited advice: as I'm sure other people on the board can tell you as well, intentionally trying to avoid the $10k CTR threshold can get you in trouble. Though a CTR is required when it's $10k or more in a single day, doing less than that (with the intention of avoiding the reporting requirement) can absolutely generate a SAR and is also technically illegal.

    Seriously, though, that is an amazing win. Speaking as someone who came back last trip with $10,100 after showing up with a $10,000 bankroll.
     
  19. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    It probably is accurate because ECs are recorded as a liability on their balance sheet. So if they use your ECs its balance sheet neutral because its already paid for, but not if they use your primary comps which would just be an added expense.

    Here it is confirmed in their 2012 Annual Report:
     
  20. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Is this really new? I've been hearing stories about comps drying up on winners at MGM properties for a long time. I think I started my Trip Advisor account almost 10 years ago and remember hearing stories like that as far back as that.
     
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