1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Why is Craps the one game where NOBODY plays "by the book"

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by kingslender, Jan 15, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    It's no secret that the best way to lower the house advantage in craps is to play the Don't Pass and back it up with full odds. Now, I understand that not everyone can afford to backup bets with full odds, but regardless of that fact, backing up a Don't Pass with odds is still better than the Pass with odds.

    In blackjack, you get leered at for not playing by the book, but in craps you are encouraged to bet against your best interest.

    Has anyone ever been successful in getting a whole table to go on the don't pass?
     
  2. rob889

    rob889 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    243
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Personally I just think it's more fun for people when there are multiple numbers that they can win on if they're hit vs waiting for the 7 all day long...that would get boring for me.

    As for the other bets, I don't care if people play the high HA prop bets because it doesn't affect me at all and the more people that play em the more profitable the casino will be in the long term and they're less likely to need to decrease their max on the free odds bet.

    I will say one thing that does bother me is when I see someone put 10 or 20 on the pass (on a $5 table) then only back it up with 10...I'll never understand why they don't just put $5 on the pass with $20 or $25 odds
     
  3. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    152
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    24
    I'm often frowned upon for playing "by the book" but sometimes I get caught up in the action and have to resist the temptation to start flipping chips into the center of the lay out.

    Just an observation, I think "Don't " players tend to play in a very conservative "by the book" fashion...
     
  4. kingslender

    kingslender Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    198
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    But I think you can still play both ways - why not play the Don't Pass, back it up with Odds, and then you can still play your numbers. That way you can still win on a long streak and you'll still have the advantage of winning on a 7 once the point is established.
     
  5. ardee

    ardee VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    2,411
    Location:
    SoCal
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    88
    The Dark Side attracts the wrong sort of people. People would rather win with everybody cheering your win rather than booing it.
     
  6. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    1,606
    Location:
    st. louis
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    6
    I've often wondered this. In my earliest days of playing craps I bet the Don't because it was the best odds for the player. The dirty looks and not being able to really get happy when I won (because of the dirty looks and occasional jab from the other players) made me switch back to playing Pass side. The mathematical difference between the 2 is so low that it wasn't worth the occasional "issues". Craps is a very fun game and part of that is rooting nature of the whole table all cheering for the same out come.
     
  7. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    As an outspoken don't player, I will try and address these issues.

    First, I've never tried to convince players at the table to play the don't. I also don't try and convince BJ players to play by the book. I think everyone should play the way they want. With that, I have played a couple times at tables where everyone was betting the don't and it was a ton of fun. There was just as much cheering as the pass line, we were just cheering for something else. However, since usually I am the only or maybe one of two players at the table betting the don't, I am typically quiet as a mouse when I am winning.

    I wish pass line players would simply understand that we are not betting against them. We are still betting against the house. It's just a different kind of bet. I truly don't understand why pass line bettors take it so personally. Don't get me started on this.

    One other point, even though I am a darkside player, I will throw out a hardway bet every now and then. It's not a good play from the HA perspective, but its fun. And I suspect that's why the vast majority of craps players make certain wagers even though there are mathematically more attractive wagers available to them. Its fun. Its a game with a lot of action and if you throw enough chips out there, you can make a lot of money real fast. Or you can lose it real fast! In any event, I am perfectly content to play my darkside and (usually) win
     
  8. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Part of it is a lack of knowledge about the don't pass. Nobody learns how to play craps by playing the don't. It's always the pass. Secondly, you need a larger bankroll to play the don't. Craps is a streaky enough game as it is, but you can get wiped out pretty quick playing the don't on a hot table. It's kind of like betting the money line on favorites in the sports book. Yes, you are more likely to win those bets, but all it takes is a couple upsets to lose your shirt.

    Also quite frankly there's such a negligible difference between the pass and don't pass (.05%), that it really makes no difference in the big picture. And "paying" an extra .05% on a pass line bet (odds don't matter) works out to be a quarter of a penny per $5 per roll. I'll gladly pay that to have more fun winning with everyone.
     
  9. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    I'm guilty of playing the hardways and sometimes the bonus craps or fire bet. On all those bets, the HA is crazy high. But I'm only betting a couple bucks on each here or there. I parlay my dollar or two hardways. I've had a lot of good hits on my parlays (taking a dollar to 10 to 100 then usually pressing to 50 and hitting that for 500). I've hit the All Tall/Small 5 times (in probably around 100-200 attempts which is crazy lucky) so I'm way ahead on that, not even counting when just the tall or small hits. At the end of the day I gamble for entertainment, and these carny bets give me great VALUE for a very small amount of money wagered.
     
  10. Rockinghorse

    Rockinghorse Tourist

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2010
    Messages:
    58
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    There are so many players trying to have fun as opposed to a long-term grind to come out ahead. It's known as a lively game and there's just more to cheer for on the pass side.
     
  11. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    814
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Not to derail the thread, but I've also never understood why don't players will shoot (unless they're by themselves obviously). On more than one occasion, I have been on a table with a Don't player who is shooting and goes on a heater. Once I even watched a guy completely wipe himself out and have to pass the dice. It just seems odd to me for some reason?
     
  12. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    45
    In my non gambling life I only associate with good and decent people. Pillars of their community. When I play craps I will associate only with those same types of people. Those that play the dark side are despicable, unsavory characters. Many of them pedophiles. They make my skin crawl.
     
  13. vegasvic

    vegasvic VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2,526
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    45
    BTW, my response wasn't serious. I'm sure most of you know that but I don't want to offend anyone :)
     
  14. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Yeah, I do the bonus bet on the few times I switch to the pass line. Its a longshot, but its fun
     
  15. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    I've done that to myself. But usually, if there are more than two other players at the table, I switch the pass line when I shoot so as not to have any drinks thrown at me (which has happened, lol)
     
  16. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    I'm offended :cuss:
     
  17. rob889

    rob889 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2011
    Messages:
    243
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Exactly. If the edge was higher I'd play the dark side but it's so meaningless. If people cared that much about the HA they should play at 10x or 20x tables instead of 2x or 3-4-5x tables
     
  18. pswearen

    pswearen Tourist

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    19
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    0
    Answer is really simple. In Blackjack someone not playing by the book can effect the result of my hand. In Craps the betting is strictly between the player and the dice. His Don't pass has no correlation with my bet, except for negative vibes messing up the camradarie of the table.
     
  19. Blacklegs22

    Blacklegs22 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    152
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    24
    I'll relate an anecdote from the last time I was in Las Vegas (which seems like forever ago:cry:). Like most, I now almost always play the Pass line with odds, place 6 and 8. (occasionally come bets as well, at a ripping hot table) In my youth I played "Don't" alot more, but got tired of the grind/bankroll requirements, plus playing the Do is much more of a party!

    Well, one night I was lured over to one of those fancy new fangled "electronic" craps machines at Ballys, the ones with the crazy huge dice that bounce on a trampoline? I decided this would be a perfect opportunity to use "don't" strategy with odds and clean up with nary a dirty look from all the "Do" players. Long story short, it was perhaps the worst "don't" session of my life! Every "shooter" seemed to roll 5 or 6 points in a row just pressing the stupid little button. After feeding several Benjamins in the machine chasing i finally admitted defeat. I was tempted to ask some of these electronic craps players to step over to the real craps table and see if we could generate the same type of heat they were generating on that stupid machine! In craps, you just never know...
     
  20. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Messages:
    1,109
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    70
    I as a "rightside" player understand that the correct way(per your book) is only
    0.05% lower HA than playing the pass (1.36% vs 1.41%HA) which you can lower both by taking odds. But no matter which way you play you are still playing a negative expectation game. So I prefer playing the pass. I do not have anything against don't players I just would rather not play on a table with them.


    http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/
     
    First Trip 2017
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.