1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Why are slot players sticking with Mlife?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by BeeeJay, Dec 5, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,725
    Location:
    Chicago & Jersey City
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    85
    Ok I get the table players sticking with mlife---great properties, superior gaming rules, reasonable minimums, and I've had decent service at table games. Also their major competitor CET treats table players like lepers so mlife is the place to be.

    But for video poker and slot players I can't see why anyone would play at MGM's properties over CET's. Combine the "specialty" slot stuff I've read about, and at least for video poker, deteriorating pay tables, and I could more easily get a drink in the Mojave than on the slot floor of these MGM's. Why are slot players sticking with say Bellagio/Aria rather than switching to P.Ho or Caesars? Or for that matter Wynn or Palazzo. They require pretty high table play but it seems like they treat slot players well.

    I still read about a lot of people giving the love to mlife, is that just table players?
     
  2. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,749
    Location:
    Burnaby, BC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    Because you aren't really a slot player yourself, so its likely they are just better informed than you and didn't latch on to internet rabble rousing from the mis-informed?

    To give a quickie breakdown:

    Video Poker:
    If you ran $10,000 through video poker at a Total Rewards property you would end up with about $12-15 in Rewards Credits.
    If you ran $10,000 through video poker at an MLife property you would end up with almost $11 in Express Comps and $10 in free play.

    Slots:
    If you ran $10,000 through slots at a Total Rewards property you would end up with about $40-50 in Rewards Credits.
    If you ran $10,000 through slots at an MLife property, AND EVEN FACTORING IN SPECIALTY SLOTS, you would up with about $35 in express comps and $30 in free slot play.

    In both cases you come out ahead with MLife.


    Then if you consider the programs:
    With Total Rewards you need $20,000 in slot play to reach "Platinum" and when you do you get 2-for-1 show tickets, buffet line pass and a separate check in at the front desk...
    With MLife you get the same three benefits with only $7,500 in slot play.
    Plus, it is easier to get offers with significant amounts of free play from MLife and resort/food credits.


    Then if you consider the properties:
    MLife properties have overall better quality rooms and a more resort-like feel.
    MLife properties have the better shows.
    MLife properties generally have better overall dining options, though Total Rewards properties overall have the better buffets.
    MLife casinos have a wider variety of slot machines on their gaming floors.
    MLife casinos overall have a better selection and pay tables for their video poker.
     
  3. JosieCat

    JosieCat VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,163
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    I personally try to keep the "love" going with both M Life and CET so I can stay at a property with either club (or both). I don't like the 10/1 changes either, but their offers to me are just too good to pass up. I really did have good intentions of staying at a CET property for my spring trip and spending only one day at M Life to keep my $700 in express comps active. But I got an offer from the Mirage that is too good to pass up - 3 nights in a tower suite, $500 in FP, $400 resort credit, limo. Plus I should have no problem getting to 90,000 Myvegas points by the time I go in the spring, so will get another night free. As long as they keep up the good offers and don't screw me in any way, they will keep my business.

    I don't play the specialty machines anyway as they are typically penny machines, which I hate. I do keep my eyes out for non specialty machines that are paying at the specialty machine rate - and don't play them.
     
  4. donof

    donof Low-Roller

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    138
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Wow Auggie, that whole post was informative and impressive. I'm a local Noir and I'm pretty disappointed with the decrease in express comps and free play recently. That being said, everything you said makes total sense.
     
  5. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,725
    Location:
    Chicago & Jersey City
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    85
    Excellent information! And yep agreed, mlife is doing better in those areas Augie addressed:

    #1 Point Play
    #2 Express Comps
    #3 Tier Level
    #4 Resort Quality

    I believe there is one category not addressed. It is called PRIMARY COMPS.

    The majority of "comps" are contained in the Primary Comp bucket, separate from Point Play and Self Redeemable Express Comps.

    Mlife's own argument on their website is they were decreasing the PP/EC buckets to improve the Primary Comp aka UPFRONT OFFER. Now even their own hosts say off the record that they are under pressure at the highest levels to keep the primary comps down.

    So I certainly agree with your analysis that they are beating Total Rewards on PP and EC's but that is sort of like the Raiders basking in the glow of beating the Eagles in average punt yardage. It's a great statistic but less consequential than Primary Comps.

    If you all may recall I was singing the praises of Mlife last June after giving all my play to Bellagio and going from almost down to zero after time off from Vegas back up to Platinum again in one 3-night stay. I had a great stay with them, except for the fact I couldn't kill to get a drink on the Bellagio floor.

    Then, after my highest trip in a couple years at Bellagio, all on 3 free nights/$300ish freeplay/$200ish FB, I start getting the reduced nights from $109 offer from them at best.

    My personal experience has been that Mlife has been an epic fail in the more important area of primary comps. The free room and the free drink are where Mlife is losing my play.

    Aria is now again sending me upfront offers after giving Mlife no play for 6 months, Bellagio is still sending the discounted rates that are worse than rack discounts I can find online.

    The biggest problem with mlife for me is the inconsistency. You can't necessarily depend on a usable offer to be there when you need it for your next trip. If you have the flexibility to go each year when they make the good offer than it works, otherwise it is kind of useless.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  6. Kimsa70

    Kimsa70 High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Messages:
    961
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    31
    I'm sticking with MLife, for now, for all the reasons Auggie listed.

    Beejay - agree with you that the inconsistency from MLife is wicked frustrating.

    Additionally, I have not been negatively impacted, yet, by the lack of Primary Comps.

    I've been lucky in that I book all my trips through the MGM International NJ office and they have always given me comped nights, limo to/from and comp tickets to any shows, even when I was not Noir. I book my MLife Corporate offers through them, and they add in the tickets/shows and limo.

    I talked with them, and that will not change.

    So, I plan to ride it out, earning the piddly $70 in Express Comps each trip (when I used to earn $300 - $400). I currently have a $1725 balance, so I figure that balance will last me through about 8 more trips, which will bring me to early/mid-summer.

    Once my Express Comps are gone, and I'm on a trip where I only earn $70, and they refuse to comp additional food and beverage (this is assuming the $0 food and beverage comps continue from MLife corporate offers), then I will reconsider where I'm playing and staying.

    I'm also missing the freeplay. The only good thing about NOT having freeplay is that I don't feel as much like rushing into the casino and immediately playing. Knowing I'm already dipping into my own bankroll will definitely change my playing approach.

    I'm grateful to get what I do now, but since I've had 12 losing trips in a row, I cannot continue to gamble at the level I have been if I don't go home a winner on one of my upcoming trips.

    I'm going to be adjusting my play, so that will mean earning even less comps.

    But as Auggie mentions, if I go to CET, I'll earn less there.

    Maybe I'll just start using all my gambling $$ to take trips to Europe and exotic islands?!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  7. Bubbavegas

    Bubbavegas VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,446
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    Don't know about the getting less in primary comps you mention, now this is going off trips before the change so I will see if this changes after this Christmas trip. The last two trips we have mainly played slots, especially the August trip when our play was primarily slots and electronic Craps and our primary comps are the best we have had, much better than our trip in the Spring when I played mainly Pai Gow, BJ and Craps. This last trip has brought us a combined 8 nights between Mandalay and Luxor, 1500FP and 750FB, that compares to 2 night, 350FP and 200FB before that. Plus CETs slots have never been kind to me and definitely nowhere near as good as the MGM slots on a whole have been, ie: best win at CET was 380 on a $30 Cats win vs 525 on a .50 Whales of Cash, 375 on a 1.25 Prophecy and many wins in the 75-150 range.
     
    Cosmo Christmas
  8. Grid

    Grid VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,478
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    31
    Yup Auggie nailed it. And I'm with Bubba. I used to, for years, split each Vegas trip right down the middle. 2 nights comped at an MGM joint and 2 at a CET one. Only playing in each club when I am staying there to maximize comps.

    I'm a high Platinum at CET (9,000 points) and a low Platinum at MGM (250,000 TC) and looking back at all of my Vegas wins over $100.00 (I take pics with the phone) 9 out of 10 are from MGM casinos, and my play lasts so much longer with the same bankroll at MGM. Over all I'm just happier with MGM, and I much prefer their casinos/resorts.

    I thought of giving Wynn more action, but I like to hop around and I cant just sit in their casino (really 1 and 1/2) all day for an entire trip. Same with The V & P, plus I never won there outside of a wild night with it 1st opened in the 90's.
     
  9. mrstealth

    mrstealth High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    Midwest - Sister Bay, WI
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    62
    As always auggie provides some excellent information. Let me provide a couple of additional considerations for total rewards.

    For the low roller: cet will give 2-3 nights comped rooms on the strip at least quarterly even with very minimal play. With mgm very seldom will the room be totally free and they also will add a resort fee.

    The other person that benigits from the vet system (in my opinion) is the one who travels and gambles where the regional cet properties are located like phoenix San Diego Tahoe etc where they can get free rooms monthly as well - and at the diamond level get other freebies at these properties as well as the diamond lounges.
     
  10. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    4,713
    Location:
    Chicago South Suburbs
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    It is interesting that all the discussion about potential comps totally skip over room comps. Mlife prefers to give more out in comp dollars and free play but no one acknowledges that CET prefers to offer a nice chunk of their potential comps in rooms. And don't even get into the room quality thing because MGM is stingy on comping even their low end hotels. It all works out in the end because there are people who would rather have their food comped and pay for their room but the math is incomplete when you aren't adding in comps and room discounts between the two.

    The reality is that if you are a low end slot player, CET is straight up the better choice. Your best other alternatives would be hotels primarily off the strip. But if you have a level of play that would draw a comp from Mlife for rooms or the attention of a host, it's not so cut and dried. You just have to go with who treats you best. Personally, as someone who has been generally turned off by MGM casinos, when I see all the kvetching online about the website and the program changes, I am not inspired to try and build up with MGM to see how they work. As much as you guys want to stick it out with Mlife, you end up doing a lot to discourage new business!
     
  11. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    705
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Just curious as to how MLife is more beneficial to table players than CET. I have both and my local casino is MGM Detroit where I play a decent amount of blackjack at $25 a hand, while only play CET while I am in Vegas 1 or 2 times a year. I have never had to pay for a room in Vegas with CET, always comped completely, but MLife properties on the other hand never have room offers for less that $30 a night at places like Excal or Luxor. The actual Rewards Credits or Express Comps might differ between the program but from a table player with an average tip budget of $2000 and playing $25 hands, CET takes much better care of my travel plans than MLife does.

    *Side note* My trip last year played near the levels described above and had $39 in Rewards Credits on my card on my last day, all from playing table games and betting sports.
     
  12. VickiMargaret

    VickiMargaret Tourist

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Messages:
    32
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    3
    Only a low roller slots player here, but on our recent trip.. of 4 days.. earnt about $1.50 in comps with MLife... WOW!!!
     
  13. littlepiggie

    littlepiggie VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,074
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    I just think they are very inconsistent overall. I was told before I left on my trip that I needed 6k points to cover one night on my room. I ended up earning 62k tier points and roughly 6k base points. I asked my host afterwards if I had covered my room and if I would get more comps in the future to see what he response was. She said yes I covered my room and that in the future I could count on slightly better offers if I continue my current play. Well based on the pretrip info I only covered one night. I believe that the hosts don't completely understand their rules
     
  14. mrstealth

    mrstealth High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    890
    Location:
    Midwest - Sister Bay, WI
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    62
    Bart, I also forgot what I consider to be one of the other most important points for me to favor CET - Their website. MGM's website puts me on absolute tilt! Always has, and instead of getting better I think it's as bad now as it ever has been.

    The CET website on the other hand allows me to quickly & easily check all of my offers in one place and to make/change a booking if I need to. Also, during the trip planning stage it shows in real time what my free nights will be, and what the cost of non-comp nights will be. Saves a lot of time.
     
  15. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,380
    Location:
    Northeast Ohio
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    52
    Auggie provides very good information. I'm sticking with Mlife, my up front comps have actually increased. Mlife wins hands down for table games.
     
  16. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    705
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    I don't disagree that he is providing good information, I am just stating that with my level of play including more frequent play at MLife (MGM Detroit), I have still seen better upfront comps specifically on rooms through CET than MLife. I would agree that I probably do get more Express Comps than Rewards Credits but I'd much rather be loyal to a company that will take care of my $100 room for 4 nights than one that will comp me 2 $50 meals a trip. But that's just my opinion, I feel like CET takes better care of the little guy like myself with the type of play I have.
     
  17. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,725
    Location:
    Chicago & Jersey City
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    85
    If you are above the MGMs higher free room mark, and dont mind zero drink service, and being at the mercy of your trip falling in an offer dead zone, then mgm is better because of superior hotels and better freeplay offers.
     
  18. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,725
    Location:
    Chicago & Jersey City
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    85
    Personally, dealing with mlife desk is like a trip to the DMV. Check that, I mean the old DMV, my last drivers test was way better than my 4 trips to get my freeplay activated at Bellagio in June.

    I still have warm feelings for Aria, but I wouldn't piss on The Bellagio if it were on fire.:evillaugh

    I may however attempt to piss in their fountain from my Cosmo Wraparound balcony a week from tonight.:evillaugh
     
  19. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    7,725
    Location:
    Chicago & Jersey City
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    85
    Bellagio is like a hot girlfriend who gets fat after a couple years and then you regret dating her just a bit too long and all your good memories are replaced with disgust.
     
  20. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Messages:
    705
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    That mark must be pretty high for free rooms with MGM. I have yet to see better than $30 a night at the low end places. My roommate who plays alot of craps however did get 3 of 4 nights free at Luxor and a comped bottle at LAX, I'm guessing because he is loyal to MLife in Vegas he has been taken care of. I will continue to stick with CET as the rooms at Planet Hollywood and Caesar are more that enough for me especially when they are free and you can score a $20 front desk upgrade as well.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.