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When your bankroll doesn't match your betting style

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by Bossplayer21, Feb 14, 2013.

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  1. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

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    I have a problem that I'd like to see if any of you share. I don't have thousands of dollars to blow on gambling. So when I go to Vegas I seek out and play the $5 tables. My bankroll doesn't support playing $10-$15 for the marathon sessions that I put in 10-14 hours a day. The problem is, $5 doesn't get my heart racing. I'm missing that adrenaline rush you get from gambling. It becomes a grind and just throwing out a red chip and I couldn't care any less if I win or not. $10 bets don't really do it either, $15-$25 bets get my interest. So, what can I do?

    I can reduce the time I play and play larger bets...but I don't enjoy doing anything else in Vegas, (shows, dinning, site seeing) rather be gambling

    Be willing to bring a larger bankroll and take on more risk by betting larger.(wife won't support this)

    My solution/plan is to schedule a trip with the wife in September. Most of my trips were during march madness and new years with the boys, so nothing but marathon grind sessions and the weather is cold. Being with the wife will allow us to do other things at least for a short break, and going in September means long hours at the pool during the day and try to gamble only at night (reduce time at the table). This will allow me to bump up my bets and capture that rush I have been missing.


    Of course what will happen is that $15-$25 will become the norm and that will become boring. Do any of you find that your bet level creeps up the longer you have been gambling in order to get that gamblers HIGH?
     
  2. Lady Fortuna

    Lady Fortuna High-Roller

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    Very interesting topic! I feel exactly the same. To bet $10 (or even $5) a hand for a couple of hours a day, makes my bankroll decrease quite fast. If unlucky, it could be finished within the first day! And what I can actually win with such low bets, is not giving me any thrills. Those small wins will just end-up back on the table in my experience.

    With roulette for example, I've been going back and forward between betting small with higher risk (on a number) and betting higher with less risk (even money bets). I even stopped playing all together, cause neither way I felt that thrill of the chance hitting big. At least big enough to have the holiday paid for, so you feel you've won!

    But now I have found my way: I split my bankroll in two parts. One half I use to play just a few spins (for the whole trip) of roulette, with large bet on a number, so I have the thrill of the chance to hit "big". And the other half I use to play slotgames (VP and some slots with fun features which I enjoy), so I can just have fun playing and not chase a win, but just to let my money last as long as possible.
     
  3. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    This is the EXACT REASON why I play VP.
    .
    For a $1.25 bet --- (5 units @ .25 )
    I have a shot at winning $1,000 ! Royal Flush
    I don't think any other game gives you that chance ?
    .
    I played Craps for years -- but as a $5 player --
    I never won $1,000 at a craps table.
    I have won $600 - $700 at a craps table but that
    was with all the hardways up to $ 25 and hitting a few.
    .
    Boss player,
    You may have answered your question --
    More pool time or gamble only at nite.
    I used both these strategies at various times.
    Funny thing is......my wife is not a pool person +
    loves to hit the casino floor right after breakfast !
    So I go then, too......."oh, twist my arm, honey !":kiss:
    If I'm on a solo trip.....I'll hit the pool + gym all morning --
    watch a game ( or sight see) in the afternoon --- then gamble at night.
     
  4. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    What length of trip do you usually take? Shortening the trip would shorten the total bankroll needed. If all you are doing is marathon blackjack 2-3 nights is probably plenty.

    There are other things you can play with to help manage things, but anything else you do short of bringing a bigger bankroll will either

    a) Increase the risk of ruin (going broke before you've played as long as you want)

    or

    b) Have you play at a level you don't find exciting.


    For example, an approach you could try ( I am assuming 3 days at 8 hours a day, $1000 total bankroll for the 3 days, and I also havent tried to figure risk of ruin. This is an example off the top of my head)


    Each hand, if your total bankroll remaining is:

    $1200 or more: Bet $30 a hand
    $1100-1200: Bet $25 a hand
    $1070-1100: Bet $20 a hand
    $1030-1070: Bet $15 a hand
    $600-$1030: Bet $10 a hand
    < $600: Bet $5 a hand

    Then, on the last day (8 hours remaining), you change your remaining budget chart to

    $1200 or more: Bet $30 a hand
    $1000-1200: Bet $25 a hand
    $800-1000: Bet $20 a hand
    $600-800: Bet $15 a hand
    $300-600: Bet $10 a hand
    $<300: Bet $5 a hand

    And in the last 3 hours of the last day, change again to

    $1200 or more: Bet $30 a hand
    $500-1200: Bet $25 a hand
    $300-500: Bet $15 a hand
    $100-300: Bet $10 a hand
    $<100: Bet $5 a hand


    Basically what you are doing is creating multiple ways (a winning streak, not much time left) to get the action up to the level you desire, while still protecting to try to help your bankroll last for the amount of time you want to play. You can tweak this if your trip bankroll is bigger/smaller or the trip is longer/shorter. But if your bankroll is way smaller, you are going to have to press MUCH more slowly than what I outlined above.

    Also if you do this, go in knowing what the effect of this will be. Because this is an overall trip budget, and because what you are doing (mathematically) is raising your average bet, your overall result is likely to be that you will frequently have trips where you lose a lot (if not all) of that budget. And then rarely you might have a trip where you book a much bigger win than you are used to. Remember, though you might keep the same trip budget, the net effect is that on average, you'll be taking less of that budget home with you at the end.
     
  5. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    As for me, I actually enjoy playing, but also prefer shorter sessions, so I don't encounter the same issue.

    I like the juice of playing up to $25 a hand. But I also occasionally like sitting at a $5 or less table and trying to drink myself ahead. But since I am maybe 1-2 hours a day max, it is easy to put that in a workable budget. Playing higher is a little added thrill but not necessary to make me want to play. I guess I am more of a thrill of the competition sort than a true gambler "needs to hurt or its not a thrill" type.

    The only game I ever really do marathon sessions in is poker.
     
  6. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

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    Interesting Joe, I actually was thinking about learning to play Video Poker. My games are 70% BJ, 25% craps and maybe 5% roulette (when with the wife because she likes to pick numbers and sit back)

    How difficult is it to learn correct strategy in VP? Comparable to learning BS for BJ?
     
  7. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    My bankroll for my last trip was $4100, and I bet $100 a hand at BJ ($50 on two spots) and maybe around the same at craps when you count the pass and the numbers I place. That's a little low for my normal bankroll, but not too much...I go between $4000 and $6000. So yeah, I know exactly what you mean about not having the BR to support my betting style.

    I take shorter trips -- two nights and most of three days usually -- but even with that I can blow through it (I was pretty much broke halfway through, last time).

    But that's how I like to play. If I lose the BR, I go sit at a 3-6 poker game (I keep a couple hundred around) and maybe play some .25 VP, or do something with my wife. I also break up the big sessions with dinners and shows, so there are fewer gambling hours (my gambling budget is limited, but my entertainment budget is pretty much not). If I did nothing but win, I'd probably get in 15 hours total in the 3 days and 2 nights (Arrive around noon Friday, headed for the airport around 2PM Sunday). Last trip I got in 7.25.

    So it all comes down to your goals gambling. I bet the way I want to bet, and if I lose, I find something else to do. Could I cut my craps bets in half and still have fun? I could. I've done $400 buy in craps sessions that were just as fun as the $1000 buy in sessions I do now. A seven point heater is still exciting, no matter how much you're making. But I don't.
     
  8. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

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    Thanks for the reply Nevyn,

    I too like to sit at a $5 table and drink 15 beers and at least feel like I drank a profit.

    My trips are normally 3-4 days so I tend to feel like I have to spend evey second gambling since I only get out to vegas once every 2 years.

    This next trip is 7 days long, hopefully allowing me not to feel so rushed.

    i'll bring $3k for the 7 days for the both of us, but the wife would probably tell you she was ok with only losing half that. She likes to sit and play BJ with me, she is a flat bettor. Probably wait until she goes to bed, then hit up the $25 tables to scratch that itch.:ssst:
     
  9. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    I'm not a grinder. I usually allot $200 - 300 a day for gambling. I usually do casino crawls, go up and down the strip (and downtown) and play the casinos, if I'm not successful I up and walk to the next casino. I also play red chips so I don't usually qualify for comps anyway so I have no leanings and ties towards any particular gaming corporation (maybe boyd casinos). doing the crawl also limits my playing time and so I don't end up spending hours on the tables. I figure I average about 4 hours a day gambling on my trips and that handles my gambling itch.

    While VP isn't that bad I get bored with the game, plus most of the time when I put in $40 in a machine and 10 minutes later I'm out I usually don't play much after that. I remember 10-15 years ago putting $40 in a machine I might be able to play for a few hours but that never happens anymore.
     
  10. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Its requires a little more time than learning BS for BJ and you also won't have the added help of a dealer or other players who can help you along in the beginning. But it is easy and fairly intuitive. Get a trainer on your phone, tablet, or computer and see how you like it.

    Given your parameters I think Nevyn has some great ideas. Essentially you have to go in with the mindset you're going to have a higher risk of ruin but you can keep adjusting your bets relative to your bankroll to keep that risk of ruin fairly constant versus your bankroll but still allow it to increase over time. I also like it because it allows you to go big in the beginning and if you win at the higher levels its awesome and you can do whatever you want, if you lose the worst case is you just go back to betting the way you used to bet.
     
  11. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    If vegas doesn't offer much for you besides gambling (and maybe the pool), is there a local casino near you instead? Might be easier to play larger at a local casino, not worry about having to fill the hours, then you can go home when you are finished.
     
  12. woodsie

    woodsie Low-Roller

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    Good topic and I have a solution for you. Come up with press betting strategy that gets you to higher bets after a couple wins in a row. For example, press you BJ bet after the third consecutive win and then press one unit each consecutive win thereafter.

    The key here is that you'll only be getting to those higher bets something like 1 out of 8 progressions so you are betting more but only occasionally which means you'll get that thrill frequently but not have big money out there on every hand.

    I play craps this way and have at least a few times per session my $5 minimums bets get up to $30-$50. On rare occasions my bets can get over $100 this way.

    It's not a winning strategy per se as the house edge is what it is but it does afford you a way to manage your bankroll yet still enjoy flying high on the occasional hotel streak.

    Never ever press when you are losing. That's basically the opposite of my strategy and will knock you out quickly.
     
  13. Ezzy711

    Ezzy711 Low-Roller

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    If you have the discipline, have you thought about a opening a Line of Credit? I know if I bring X amount of cash and I run out it spoils the fun and I have nothing to do the rest of the time. The ATM can be annoying and expensive. Once I sit down and pull from my LOC it gives me a sort of freedom. I rarely use it all and only twice in about 10 or 12 trips to various casinos have I had to send them a check. Even then you have time to get the cash together. My LOC is much more than I'd ever spend. (famous last words!)

    I use a system similar to ones others mentioned - Once you win a few increase your bet. The lower bets get you through the mean streaks and if you put some good money out it's a big more exciting. I must admit when I have a multiple bet out and I end up having to split or double down I sweat a little but that's the fun!
     
  14. Bossplayer21

    Bossplayer21 Low-Roller

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    Thanks everyone I'll have to start pressing more aggro when on a win streak just to get that high from betting higher. Usually that's when I have to split multiple times and double resulting in a 20-25x base unit loss, smacked back down to grinding levels.
     
  15. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    As others have suggested try playing games that give you a change to win bigger with a smaller bet. For example you could play roulette with $1 spots, for $5 you get 5 chances to win at 35 times your bet. Otherwise the VP suggestion was a good one $1.25 you have the possibility of winning $1000. If you play craps play on a $5 or $10 table and make some $5 hardways bets. Hitting a hardway can get your heat pumping even even if you only bet $5. Good Luck.
     
  16. BeeeJay

    BeeeJay President of The Red Lobster Hostess Satisfaction

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    This is an excellent subject that really gets to the heart of the matter for me and my enjoyment of Vegas.

    I believe this is an unsolvable conundrum, for me at least, because no matter how much money I would have the betting level necessary to gain my interest would adjust accordingly.

    Specifically I believe the "buzz" from gambling for me is directly related to the "risk of ruin", and therefore to hold my interest I must, by definition, bet at a level which poses a very realistic risk of ruin.

    And my solution to this is definitely to decrease the volume of betting decisions so that each bet is at a level inducing stress aka excitement, but I'm completing an insufficient volume of bets to insure doom.

    Also I find it effective to use various "pressing" strategies when winning which increase the upside potential while leaving the downside low. The effect most often is that you have less small winning sessions as those become break even sessions due to the press.
     
  17. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    time to find a new game. by increasing your bets to get that rush again, you'll just have to continue to increase it as each level gets more and more comfortable. if you can't afford it, that will just get you in trouble. try switching games to one that you can play for fun and make the amount of money you have last longer. I know I turn to craps when I just want to have some fun gambling without risking too much.
     
  18. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    The "buzz" for me in craps is not how much I have out on the table but when I press my two way bets on hardways and I keep pressing then when I have $100 + on the two way hardways bet and it hits, the table goes nuts, I get paid and the "boys" get paid, it that excitement that gets me going. So pressing my bets is really what gets my "buzz" going.
     
  19. Kiwicol

    Kiwicol Low-Roller

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    I often wish I could revert to the old days of having $100 for the day and being happy sitting at a slot betting minimums and trying to get my buzz mainly through the Cocktail Waitress, and a cheap buffet.

    As someone else said I think there is relativity between bankroll and risk and the size of a hit required to stir the juices.

    When you find yourself sitting unmoved after hitting an inside number at roulette for $20 @ 35/1 you start thinking about these sort of things:eek:

    Mind you it is probably linked somehow to the fact that people need a nicer car and house as their income levels rise??
     
  20. Terry Benedict

    Terry Benedict VIP Whale

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    Start small, finish big?

    I will go down to Vegas for four or five days. The first few days I will gamble hit-and-run for small buyins. We will spend time at the pool, go check out what's new, a show, dinners, go downtown, just enjoy Las Vegas.

    With the small losses and small wins, I usually have 75-100% of my bankroll left on the last night and morning. Then I can hit the tables for higher minimums. If I win, I have a good gambling story. If I lose, I didn't lose more than I wanted or feel like I didn't go Vegas in Las Vegas.
     
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