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Table Games when did most of the the DD pitch games change

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by jingber05, Dec 16, 2013.

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  1. jingber05

    jingber05 Tourist

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    to face up. did mgm casinos like mirage and bellagio have their DD face down at one point? i miss holding the cards. way more enjoyable.
     
  2. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I'm not aware of any pitch game where the cards are face-up. There are 2-deck shoe games in several places that are dealt face-up. Of course, I've never been in the 'new' MGM and it's been years since I've set foot in bellagio, but I'd find it very surprising if they're doing that now.
    Personally? I find that the 2-deck shoe game is easier to count than a pitch game, as you get to see each card as it's dealt, rather than having to wait until the end of the hand to see the other players' first two cards.
    The other advantage (?) is that they leave the decks in-play for a longer period than with pitch games. The shoe-game cards tend to be in much better shape for a longer time, having been spared the manhandling & bending that so many players subject them to.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  3. Lord Suspect

    Lord Suspect Low-Roller

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    I used to enjoy $50 DD pitch games at the Sands and $10 DD pitch at Circus Circus b4 it smelled. Showing my age there, but it was the last 2 cards dealt down DD games I can remember.
     
  4. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Where did you see this? I played at both Bellagio and Aria in the past two months and both were dealt face down
     
  5. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    What? I just played at both those places around Thanksgiving and it was face up as usual. I can't remember them ever being face down. MGM was face down up until this summer but others have confirmed its face up now as well, I haven't played there though since then.
     
  6. meyers67

    meyers67 High-Roller

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    all the mlife casinos deal them face up. they dont want you to touch the cards.
     
  7. jingber05

    jingber05 Tourist

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    this is very incorrect. im talking about when these properties first opened.
     
  8. jingber05

    jingber05 Tourist

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    aria and bellagio are not face down. maybe when they first opened.


     
  9. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Very weird. The DD was face down when I played at each place in the last two months. The shoe games were face up. I even joked with one of the dealers that I needed the face up so he could help me add up my hand. And I don't recall drinking either night I played DD, so I hope I'm not losing my mind, lol
     
  10. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

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    You get to Vegas more than I do :grrr:.But...I have played many hours on the DD games at Bellagio since 2006, and some time at Aria. They have always been face up games. So if it was face down, it is a very recent change.

    The only pitch game I have played at MGM casinos was at NYNY. That game is probably long gone.
     
  11. MidnightBJ

    MidnightBJ Low-Roller

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    Aria was face up when I played there last month both on main floor and in the high limit room. Bellagio was as well back on Memorial Day.
     
  12. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    I think UKFanatic was so drunk he didn't realize he was playing baccarat. :poke:
     
  13. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I kept asking to hit until I reached nine and they never would. Stupid blackjack. Wait ........ :faint:
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Y'all keeping talking about a pitch game where it's dealt like a shoe game?!?!?

    Wow. I really have never seen that anywhere. Of course, I guess not ever going to MGM or Bellagio would explain those two...but really? "most" of the pitch games (per the OP)?

    I would say the VAST majority of pitch games are dealt face-down. I'd provide a list, but it would be easier to say that this is true for every Nevada, NJ & Louisiana casino I've ever been in over the past 30+ years...and I assure you that that's well over 100 places...including every current casino downtown, and most places on the strip... like I said - MGM & Bellagio are exceptions, not the 'rule'.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  15. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    The OP is using the the terms "pitch" and "face down" interchangeably. Since AFAIK all pitch games are face down and vice-versa. So he/she is asking when they switched from dealing it pitch/face-down to dealing it face up.
     
  16. jingber05

    jingber05 Tourist

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    ding! thank you!


     
  17. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Oh...ok...that makes more sense...so, the question is: why have so many strip properties gone to shoe games instead of pitch games.

    The answers are:
    1. Most shoes are 5 to 8 decks, so there are considerably more hands before a shuffle is required. More hands-per-hour means a higher house-take per hour.
    2. Those 5 to 8 deck shoes? Far more difficult to achieve a positive count high enough to justify an increase in one's bet. So, it's an anti-counting measure.
    3. Shoe games mean the players never touch the cards...so they cannot be easily marked, notched or scratched.
    4. Cards last far longer when not handled by the players. Like 4 or 5 times longer. So, new cards do not need to be brought in nearly as often...which translates into more hands per hour and a higher house-take per seat, per table.

    For those two-deck shoe games? They get all of the benefits associated with numbers 3 & 4.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  18. joshrocker

    joshrocker VIP Whale

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    I love the old pitch games. I used to seek them out when I was downtown since they could be found pretty easily. They were harder to find (at reasonable limits anyway) on my last trip (4 years ago). I doubt they make a comeback but i'd be really happy if they would!
     
  19. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Still plenty of two-deck pitch tables downtown @ $5 & $10 minimums...just no DAS (any more).
    The Cal, MSS & Fremont have a LOT of 'em...4-queens still keeps one going most of the time & from what I've read, 'theD' now has one on the main floor as well.

    ...and, one of my new 'favorite casinos', the Gold Coast, has a lot of low-limit DD 3:2 pitch games with DAS! Of course, they're not downtown, but hey - still worth mentioning.
    :beer:
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  20. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    What the OP is talking about is 2-deck games where the dealer holds the cards in his hand (no shoe used), but still deals the cards face-up, and the players don't touch the cards. This is very common at the MGM properties. I have not seen CET doing this; whenever I get a 2-decker there it's pitch and the players hold the cards, (IIRC).

    Not true at all. You often get a high positive count in shoe games and it usually lasts a long time, (often 10-20 hands), unlike 2-decks where they've shuffled up by then. There is no math that says increased bets opportunities based on the count are more common in 2-deck games compared to 6 or 8 decks. Heck, the way they deal 1-deck now you often get zero chances because there is one round to a full table and they shuffle every round.

     
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