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What Percent Of Players Walk Out A Casino @ Loser?

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by DOUBLE B, Jul 1, 2013.

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  1. DOUBLE B

    DOUBLE B Tourist

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    This question was posed on another forum so I am maybe hijacking it to this forum.

    I play 99% of my time/money on VP. I play only 1 game and I know perfect strategy for my game and try my best to play perfect even if it slows my play down. What amazes me is that too many VP players that I see just seem to bang out hold cards with no care for proper hold/play. Some seem to relish and brag about how fast they can play and not what is the correct play. No! I don't stand and watch over others play but I do on occasion stop and watch 2-3 or 4 plays just to see if they make the proper play.

    I have a friend who frequents VP when he goes to Vegas. He does not pay much attention to perfect play/strategy. Why? He says it does not matter in the short term. I ask him what is short term? He thinks that because he only
    plays 30 hours or so each trip that correct strategy does not matter. 30 hours times 10 trips---short term?

    If you are a VP player and do not subscribe to perfect strategy what is your reasoning for it?

    Also, considering all gaming games what percent of people do you think walk out of a casino a loser. If you would like to throw in a guess as how much the average loser loses, I think most gamers would be interested in knowing what you think.
     
  2. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    I guess it depends on the short term or long term. In the long term I would say that anyone who plays anything besides live poker, and a relatively infinitesimal few card counters and sports bettors, is a long term loser, or about 99.995%.

    In the short run, anything can happen. But, even the short term winners eventually, and inevitably, give it all back and more.

    I had a casino exec once tell me that the absolute very worst thing that can happen to a casino player is to win a decent amount on their first or second trip to a casino. I tend to believe this.

    Regarding losses, I remember several years ago reading that the average LV casino patron budgets about $400 a day for gaming. My guess is that about 95% of these people lose their daily budget on a daily basis. I could be way off but I see very little knowledge or discipline in casinos.:peace::beer:
     
    Annual Summer Bliss in the Land of Milk and Honey!!!
  3. SandPete

    SandPete Low-Roller

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  4. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Anything less than infinite time is short term...
     
  5. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Its interesting, last week during my latest trip I decided to keep very detailed notes on every single gambling session I had. Even if I stuck a $20 in a random penny slot I'd record my w/l, points earned, and the game type. It only took seconds and I honestly think it helped me because it made me aware of certain behavioral patterns I probably didn't realize before and made me more disciplined. I became better able to walk away when I was up because I really WANTED to record wins. I ended up ahead by a decent amount during the trip but was down in the beginning. It was in the later days that I had a lot of hit-and-run sessions. On one table where I was up around 3k before I even signed my marker betting around $200/hand I decided to color up. I even told the dealer (who I tipped aggressively) that I know people would criticize me for leaving during a hot streak and he said every hot streak he's seen ends and most of the time people give it all back and more. I know its all a wash at the end but honestly if you can be satisfied with small wins you'll be better off than most people during most trips. But for a lot of people that may not be fun, so it wouldn't be worth it.
     
  6. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Right--I have often talked with friends, fellow players, and dealers about a simple principle: In order to win, you have to be willing to leave the table with winnings. Sounds stupid, but many players are unable/unwilling to do it. I would guess that 95-99% of casino visitors leave losers.
     
  7. Snickers

    Snickers Low-Roller

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    We always play low enough cash in that we can simply enjoy playing and often we search out slots that have entertaining bonuses or make "are we lucky" hold decisions on a bartop video poker game while enjoying free drinks. We play at the "entertainment" value level and playing perfect strategy would take some of that "entertainment" value away. At our near home casino running $20 through a slot gets us a buy one get one free prime rib dinner so we look for that return.

    That said, I can do complex mathematical analysis with the best of them but choose not to spend my vacation time wrapped up in complex theoreticals with the exception of Hold 'Em tournaments with more easily calculated odds of outcomes where I do play closer to projected mathematical odds or bluff when the math makes sense to do so. At that point I am still having fun though!
     
  8. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Except for my facecard, facecard and 9 I mentioned in another thread, where I toss the 9, I play pretty close to perfect play. Oh wait, I also keep a facecard & 10, tossing a non-suited second facecard card. But other than those two exceptions, I think we both do play pretty close to perfect play.

    Winning and losing, I'd be lying if I said I won more than I lost and I do keep detailed records. I've been going to Vegas since 1973, so it is impossible to beat the house edge over that long a span. But, winning isn't the only mark of a good trip to Vegas. If it happens, great:thumbsup: If not, did we have a good time, relax and enjoy ourselves for 5 days? And if the answer is yes, then it was a good trip, win or lose! And even on some of my worst losing trips, I still enjoyed myself!
     
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  9. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Yep, I stand corrected. The average gaming budget per trip was around $400 back when I read the article. My bad.....:nworthy:
     
    Annual Summer Bliss in the Land of Milk and Honey!!!
  10. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter Tourist

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    I've left a casino or two up, sometimes significantly up, but I've never come home more successful than paying for the trip. I try to subscribe to the 'it's more fun playing with house money' strategy where my initial outlay goes quickly back into my pocket when I get up (tables). This is a liberating feeling that allows me to take more risk than I normally would which I find exhilarating and the reason that I enjoy gambling.

    My wife, on the other hand, is the perfect Vegas customer that should be bombarded with 'free stay' offers on future trips. Countless times I will take a break and sit with her while she plays slots and watch her wild swings. If she throws a twenty into any given quarter machine, those 80 credits will magically become 300+ and she'll ask what to do, to which I'll give my normal advice, "quit now, move on, or if you like the machine, stop at 80 credits and there is no blood and you've had fun". Fast forward a few minutes and she is pissed off at the machine that only has 40 credits left and falling fast...

    MH
     
  11. fadetheseven

    fadetheseven High-Roller

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    I would say I lose a lot more than I win. I play for the action. If I'm up but only at the table for 15mins, I never walk away. What else are you going to do with your time? Watch TV? If the casino were only an hour away, I'd probably have a different opinion.

    I have not kept records for this exact reason. My rational self would look at the tally and think it better to not gamble.
     
  12. atom

    atom High-Roller

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    I don't play perfect strategy, though I try to. Between overlooked combos, misses button presses, slight variations in strategy between similar games and general oopses I probably play around 98-99% of perfect. Good enough for me.

    Leaving the casino a winner (short term) takes a certain discipline that few people have. I would say in most cases it takes at least one substantial win late in the session or a very good streak for most people to walk out ahead.
     
  13. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    If you are hijacking this thread from videopoker.com, this is what I wrote:

     
  14. Smo

    Smo Mr. Las Vegas

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    In a recent survey (within the past 2 years) done by Harrah's/CET, the answer was 1 in 20 leave a winner. So roughly 5%.
     
  15. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Me too. If I have a great blackjack session I'll take my original session money and half my win and pocket it. Then I'll take a break and take half my win and make some larger BJ bets or take a stroll to the craps table. I figure its my money vs. house money, but I totally get what you're saying. This is when casino gaming is at the acme for fun factor.:peace:
     
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  16. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Do you have a link to any of this? It just seems off to me so I'd like to see the details of the survey.

    This is the same as saying the average gambler only wins 1 out of 20 trips. If someone told me they only win once out of every 20 trips I'd consider them very unlucky. But I don't know how it is for slot players, maybe they lose much more often than that so skew the averages.
     
  17. Smo

    Smo Mr. Las Vegas

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    I had the file on my hard drive, I'll see if I can find it.

    After all my trips to Vegas, Laughlin, and the local NA casino for the past 25 years or so; I would say I run about a 7% - 8% win ratio.

    *edit* Found the survey, but it doesn't mention the win percentage. But I did read that on the internet somewhere! :poke:

    Anyways, I found a decent poll and discussion on this here ----> http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/5882-what-percentage-of-gamblers-leave-vegas-a-winner/

    I personally think 5% sounds about right.
     
  18. Suekel

    Suekel VIP Whale

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    Certainly we've had more losing trips than not, but in the past few years we have learned to be better about banking wins, even small ones. So if we stick a $20 in a machine and manage to get up to $80 or $100, we will cash out, and start over with a new $20. Same thing with tables - if we hit a few good hands, we will stick a black chip or two in a pocket and leave without touching them again. It helps us with not giving back everything we win.
     
    Vegas Just Because...
  19. Smo

    Smo Mr. Las Vegas

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    Wow, you sure are lucky!

    If I stick a twenty in, and double it or more, I cash out and leave the machine. Sometimes I will stay and play the winnings if the machine is fun, or if I feel "lucky".
    My rules for BJ are: If I double my buy-in, I quit! Sometimes if the table is hot, and I've doubled my buy-in, I'll take the same amount off the table and place it in my pocket. Now I'm playing with "their money". If I double that, then it's rinse and repeat the process until I have no more chips at the table, or if there's no more room in my pockets for chips, or if the management asks me to leave!
    I prefer the latter, because that means I was winning good, and I had a great time as well. :faint:
     
  20. DMSCR

    DMSCR High-Roller

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    98%/99%. Who knows. I asked a few dealers and supervisors my first few trips (2010) out to Vegas since I was very outwardly curious back then. Most of them either run around the issue since they don't want to jeopardize their jobs which I understand or outright honest and tells me the play by play. The dealers at the Encore especially tells me straight up and seems to not have a problem on disclosing what they see at the tables most of the time. Same story always goes like this. This player or a bunch of players come to the table and win so and so but at the end they give it all back and lose their initial stake as well. Yet they state, but hey they had a great time and the drinks were free. Oh well. Hey it could of been worse. It could of been my money. LOL.

    In all my time at the tables from Vegas to Atlantic City to Foxwoods I have only ran into and met which I can count with one hand (THREE) players that were actually long term consistently profitable players. Not only do they win consistently but they KEEP it. Reason is? They were willing to walk away and not over bet a hand. These three players care more about the process and the risk instead of the money and the excitement which almost all losing gamblers focus on.
     
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