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What is your Tiger Woods prognosis?

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by ken2v, Mar 5, 2015.

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  1. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Another coach.
    Non-firing glutes.
    More WDs and missed cuts.
    Five wins in 2013 but nary a major since 2008 and only eight wins (a career for lesser sorts) over the past five-plus seasons.
    $300,000,000 or so sent away with the ex.
    Saying all the right things about kids and family time.
    Banging a hot skier and the best ever in the biz.
    Accumulating surgeries like he once took PotY honors.
    And a very high-mileage, 39-year-old chassis, body and driveline.

    Does he get Snead but not Jack? Does he go all back-to-future with a Vijay-like 40s, totally sealing the deal?
     
  2. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    Certainly seems like he's done.

    His body is breaking down but the worst thing is in his head.
     
  3. PayTriple

    PayTriple The Cucumber King

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    I'm a huge Tiger fan, and I love the history of golf.
    I think it is pretty clear that his best golfing days are over, which is not to say he won't continue to win more tournaments or even some Majors, but just not at the phenomenal rate that we were accustomed to seeing prior to his infamous Thanksgiving car accident.
    One thing that is very clear to me is that the great Bobby Jones had it right when he said "Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course...the space between yours ears." Not even Tiger's tremendous physical capabilities could overcome the mental stress that resulted from the turmoil of his self-inflicted personal life.
    Nevertheless, his story is compelling because every time he tees it up now, there is the potential that he will some how turn back the clock and find a little bit of the magic from his glorious golden years and do something special. I, for one, would not want to miss that event, which is why I will tune in whenever he plays.
     
  4. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

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    Probably the worst injury is to the PGA and TV networks pocket books because he's such a draw. I wonder if he cant really play at the same level ,expecting to win every week ,will he retire and just play golf for fun rather than be good but not great on the tour.
     
  5. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Good question, jersey. My reaction is he is more Jack than Arnold. Jack was not about ceremonial golf, and when he couldn't bring the goods, he effectively went away. Though the quip is that Arnie thinks he can win every time he tees it up, he just LOVES golf, and perhaps is as happy with his gang at Bay Hill as he was competing for green jackets.
     
  6. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    As someone who has had two major back surgeries I can still see him winning occasionally. The back gets good and you go out and play some good rounds, then it flairs up again and it is the only thing you think about. I can't imagine the stress he puts on his back with the kind of club speed and torque the pros generate.
     
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  7. jerseyguy

    jerseyguy VIP Whale

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    He jumps out of his shoes at the ball,at least he used to. The two guys I always thought had such a smooth effortless swing were Els and Singh. Maybe because of their size they appear to be so.effortlessly hitting the ball. Couples fought his way thru a lot of back pain and can still play as far as I know. My opinion for the avg. golfer is that if your back hurts dont be a hero and go out and play because you can alter your good swing by favoring your back and develop all kinds of bad habits,sometimes w/o even knowing it.
     
  8. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    After everything he has worked for his entire life I would agree when he feels he can't compete he will hang it up. However, I disagree on the playing golf for fun. It has never been about fun for the man and I don't think that will change. It has been a business and way to show the world how to dominate in ways we've never seen before. Once that is gone I likely think he will hang up the clubs and may only play a few times a year even with his buddies Sir Charles and MJ. Other than that he will chase his beautiful girlfriend around the world to her events, hide away on his private yacht and blow money in Vegas, all things he currently does that are his "fun."
     
  9. Malibugolfer

    Malibugolfer High-Roller

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    He's lost the indefinable unquestioned belief in his ability to make any shot or putt. More a Zen than a conscious mind set.
    Given that both the last two week's tour winners were ranked 278th each in the world, one of whom is a 3 time major winner, Tiger just has no way of psyching his way to wins anymore. The fields are too deep.
    If healthy he still can compete but no more green jackets for him, nor green for the networks.
     
  10. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    As for the call of the question Ken posed, I think he is far from completely done. I surely question him get to Jack's record but as long as they continue to play the Masters at Augusta he will at least have one shot a year as even in his worst he still has found ways to compete there.

    Further as Ken pointed out he was still 2013 player of the year. The man still knows how to win and if he could even get it to 80-90% that's still plenty talent for him to win on any given week. The road will be a tough one but he is the epitome of the word competitor and he loves to work to improve himself. Not many would go on a winning streak like he did then tear it all down because they felt they could still be better as he has done on multiple occasions.

    He is smart when it comes to golf and if he puts in the time on the game as he has in the past I see no reason he won't win a good handful more of PGA Tour events and maybe if we are lucky another Major or two.
     
  11. Krh2o

    Krh2o MIA

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    He added to much muscle in the late 2000's. He was looking more like a strong safety then a golfer. That was too much muscle for his frame. His swing was to violent. Who breaks a leg in a round of golf? He was carrying to much muscle and now at his age it's breaking down on him. I doubt he will ever win again.
     
  12. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Four to beat Snead is attainable, maybe even likely (if he softens up and rounds out). Five to beat Jack is not going to happen. Courses for horses and all, but Augusta has changed as Tiger has changed, and his short-game struggles -- you figure he will overcome them, but not get to the level he once was -- are the worst thing for him, anyone, there. I'd say Open Championships are his best bet, and he certainly ain't concluding life with eight of those.
     
  13. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    Tiger has won 24% of the tournaments he's entered. 24%. That's crazy. I think he doesn't know how to deal with mediocrity. Tiger is tough mentally. Very tough.

    Whether you root for him or against him, golf is a lot less exciting without him.
     
  14. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    We need to see if Tiger still is tough, 'cause that's what it seems to be coming down to.

    The Celtics or Yankees in the heyday, Richard Petty, Tiger, UCLA BB you-know-when ... I don't necessarily find dominance exciting or compelling. Very easy to be in awe of what Tiger did. That didn't make the game exciting.

    Admittedly, I'm not the casual observer who would not tune in if not for Tiger.
     
  15. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    While I agree with your assessments of too much muscle and violent swing he still was very successful with both of those in that time period. Maybe not major-wise but he was still winning at a great clip. As for the leg, it was a stress fracture and that can happen to anyone from a world class sprinter to a guy that sits at a desk for 60 hours a week. All it takes is an incorrect stride, walking on uneven ground, stress on the bone during during. I'd be hard pressed to believe it was as a direct result of his violent swing it maybe a contributing factor at best.
     
  16. Universal

    Universal Low-Roller

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    Not only do I think he won't win another major, I'm not sure he'll ever win another tournament. He didn't even look like he belonged on tour this year and his biggest asset was always his mind. Now he looks like a complete head case. It's hard to watch and will be devastating to the tour if he's truly as done as it appears.
     
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  17. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    I think the thoughness is still there. He continues to fight as has been evidenced since that fateful Thanksgiving as he still continued to play at a very competitive level. If he could get any semblance of a golf game he would be competitive again.

    His biggest problem is that short game. I've played a lot of competitive golf and can't think of a time in my life I bladed or chunked as many chips as Tiger in recent times. I think his chipping yips are more telling than his mental toughness or anything physical.

    Chipping is relatively simple to be mediocre at, it's a very short simple stroke and while it is tough to get to elite levels it is fairly easy to get to a level where you can get the ball on the green inside 10 feet but Tiger sometimes can't move the ball 2 feet in front of him or he blades it 20 yards past the target.

    If he overcomes this he will pass Snead easily and give himself a shot at a few majors because he still hits the ball better than 90% of the guys out there even at 39.
     
  18. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    The yips aren't mental?

    Sounds like you're saying A and not A on several of these things.

    He has a two-way miss. (Nothing new) No distance control with his irons. (Wholly new.) The yips. (He was the one guy who'd never get them.) And he's a battered and battered 39s. This shit is cumulative. The toll builds over time. Perhaps what isn't astounding is that it hit Tiger, rather that it didn't hit him sooner, that he sustained at his level for so damn long.

    I hate to ape Tiger, but it's true, his head got him over a B and C and D game many many times. Now all the pieces are giving him difficulty. That is the rare bird in this. And he has the yips, the doubts. (And perhaps the denials are now finally, truly denials.) It is physical and mental.
     
  19. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    I think he'll withdraw from ALOT more tourneys --
    If his score stinks and he can see he won't win.....why should he bother to continue ?
    He doesn't need the money.....or much else.
    He'll tell us it was something physical --- and quit.
    *
    *
    Back in the day when he was touted the World's Greatest --
    A former golfer ( and Damn !...I wish i could remember who ? )
    was asked about Tiger breaking everyone's records.
    The pro said THEE MOST prophetic statement :
    "Well....let's wait until he has kids + a family....and his body gets older or injured.....then,
    let's discuss it."
    *
    That guy knew what he was talking about !
    Just can't remember who it was ?
     
  20. klawrey

    klawrey High-Roller

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    I of the belief that yips are not wholly mental. He is talking about his leading edge and relating it to his new swing work. It's mental in the sense that it's bullshit trying to draw a connection to full swing and short game.

    As for the lack of distance control I think that it will come with time with his new coach. It's not like his distance control was out of whack when he was running hot in 2013. As a frequent player Ken you should know as well as anyone that the game is cyclical. Look at Harrington recently or your example of Vijay's near post-mortem success. I think anything distance control wise it's cyclical and will return. Yips not so much he needs to stop trying to mirror his swing to short game or he's toast.

    I'd agree there are doubts but he is still mentally tough to believe he can win and compete. I'd say there is some level of mental and physical but I think the vast majority of it comes down to focusing on that short game and simplifying the process.
     
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