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Table Games Was this the right call by the pitboss? (Blackjack)

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by ams722, Jul 8, 2013.

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  1. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    Here's the story:

    Blackjack table, $15 min, full table, we were on a good streak so people had been pressing their bets a bit.

    Dealer shows a 2. Everyone at the table gets a crappy hand, ranging from 14-17.

    First player, dealt a 14, waves his hand yet the dealer gives him a card. It's a face card. Everyone at the table shouts that he waved it and the dealer agrees she screwed up.

    Pit boss is called over and informed of the situation. Player 1 is allowed to stay with his 14.

    Nobody else takes a hit.

    Dealer flips her hole card to reveal a 10, making her total 12. At this point we all say she would have busted had she not dealt Player 1 the face card. Pit boss doesn't care. Says there's nothing we can do about the wasted face card.

    You know what comes next:

    Dealer draws a 9, giving her 21.

    Instant uproar at the table. We all lose. Pit boss says too bad, so sad. Doesn't even listen to our complaints before basically bolting.

    Never before have I wanted to grab my money back so badly before the dealer tries to take it.

    Was this right call? I think a better pit boss could have made the hand a push for us all, even though we should have all gotten paid.

    I was PISSED. In the heat of the moment I told the dealer, "You can thank that pit boss when you don't get tipped." She was pissed too after that.
     
  2. anonanon

    anonanon Low-Roller

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    That doesn't sound right, you should have at least gotten a free drink or something...
     
  3. oc_guy

    oc_guy Low-Roller

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    Every time I've been at a table and the dealer admits a mistake, the boss always gives the option for each player to stay in or take their bets back.
     
  4. msavard

    msavard Tourist

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    This. Dealers are human. This stuff happens.

    That said results oriented thinking like this is sorta silly. If the first card was a 9 and the second card was a face you'd be high fiving instead of complaining :cheers: This is like complaining that "someone took my bust card" by hitting when they shouldn't. It's all random. Relax and enjoy the game.

    Boss should have given you a chance to take your bets back though.
     
  5. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Agree with the last post. Burning the face card is actually the correct thing for the pit boss to do, but each player should have had the option of withdrawing his or her bet and waiting for the next hand
     
  6. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    One avoidable error may have occurred if the pit did not emphasize that the ten was dead, and deal with the fallout, before doing anything else. Next, as a goodwill gesture, he permits players to pull back their wagers or play the hand.

    With a normal array, or in a game in which players have one card down, it is probably advantageous to the house to make this offer because the dealer shows a stiff. In this particular case, since a two up stands a good chance of making and the players are known to have crap, the offer is not as good for the house but is still good public relations.

    Players don't have the right to expect more if they get to see the dealer's up card and are given the option to play or not play. That's better than what happens in some other misdeal situations. The fact that a nine came up is entirely irrelevant.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  7. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    The standard call I've seen was to give players the option of treating it as a dead hand and/or burning the misdealt card and carrying on. But I've also seen pit bosses offer better options to players like asking if anyone wanted the misdealt card. I posted a story from a couple weeks ago at MGM where a pit boss let me essentially do anything after a misdeal where I saw both the dealers cards, which turned out to be a 17 so I ended up doubling and winning on a hand I wouldn't have doubled under normal game play.

    However the fact that the 10 came out and a 9 was eventually dealt is NOT irrelevant. That's just nonsense. Its a simple issue of a priori probabilities vs. posteriori probabilities. You're not dealing with a constantly shuffling infinite deck. The irrelevant part is that the priori probability was "totally random" to begin with. Because the priori probability is no longer relevant once you have new information.
     
  8. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    This has definitely happened to me a couple times, I think most recently at Aria (offering the misdealt card, that is). Personally, if I was the pit boss I would have at least let people take their bets back; it's not like winning that hand for the casino at a $15 table is going to be helping their bottom line all that much, and pissing off players is never good business.
     
  9. BCeagle

    BCeagle Tourist

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    Absolutely the correct answer, and with crap hands everyone would have pulled back. I have a story that happened to me at Trump Plaza, it probably deserves its own thread since it can probably help lots of people.
     
  10. BCeagle

    BCeagle Tourist

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    I figure no one else wants to hear my dumb story but here goes:

    I was at a $100 table at Trump Plaza in AC. I am on 1st base and I have been playing 2nd base most of the time but occasionally wouldn't when the table was going cold. I put a bet in the 2nd position and the dealer missed it, he dealt one card to 3rd position and I told him that should be my card (a king), he says he cant back it up and I tell him its not out of his hand yet, so he can, at which points he lets go of the card. He proceeds to deal himself an Ace and me a 16 (which sucks since the 6 should have been his) I tell him I want to pull my bet back for a misdeal and that everyone at the table should be allowed to.

    He calls the pit boss over who says I am wrong, and I point out that it is his option but since it was the Casino's mistake, the customer should be right. He tells me to lay off and was not nice about it, so I ask for his name and number. Dealer proceeds to turn 21, we all lose and all leave the table, but I am fuming. I go over to casino control, who says that I am correct and they call the floor boss over who says I am absolutely correct but cannot take my word on it and to bring him to the pit boss. The Pit boss proceeds to repeat my story and then he is sent home. :confused2: I was shocked, but he was so nasty it made me so happy. Not only did my and my friend get our money back but anyone at the table we saw in the next few seconds did also.

    Long story short, if you are right, make sure you stand up for yourself.
     
  11. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Some good information here.
    You won't learn this from a book. :beer:
     
  12. Rush

    Rush High-Roller

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    More important: Did the A/C in your room work?


    But seriously folks, it costs the casino NOTHING to ask the players one by one if they would like the card in question, or to "stand", or to opt out of the hand completely and get their money back. Once everyone makes their decision, the hand plays out with no bitching.

    There is no set protocol to follow in these matters, and each manager does as they see fit.
     
  13. gamblersruin

    gamblersruin Low-Roller

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    This. awesome :thumbsup:
     
  14. ernestoc33

    ernestoc33 Low-Roller

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    Just out of curiosity, were did this happen? A similar sounding name will do, in case there's a rule against mentioning it idk.
     
  15. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    "However the fact that the 10 came out and a 9 was eventually dealt is NOT irrelevant. That's just nonsense. Its a simple issue of a priori probabilities vs. posteriori probabilities. You're not dealing with a constantly shuffling infinite deck. The irrelevant part is that the priori probability was "totally random" to begin with. Because the priori probability is no longer relevant once you have new information."

    Thanks for clearing THAT up.
     
  16. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    It wasn't even in Vegas, it's a local casino. It just pissed me off that I felt the need to vent here. It was the Hollywood Casino Toledo, where the dealers don't know anything and the pit bosses know even less. Seriously, I can't tell you how many times I've had to help a dealer determine whether or not the 17 they have is soft or hard there...

    The MGM Grand Detroit is my go-to local casino, and the pit bosses there are MUCH better and always let you pull your bet if the dealer screws up.
     
  17. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    LOL... a man after my own heart!:nworthy:
     
  18. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Where do you get that from? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there is established protocol. No organization in their right mind would leave a potential regulatory offense solely up to the discretion of guys who were basically promoted one level past dealer, and BCeagles example hits that point.
     
  19. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Everytime I've encountered this same thing, the pit has always:
    1. Allowed the first player to stand.
    2. Ask the next player if he wants the revealed card. If he does, then the game continues as normal.
    3. If he (player 2) does not want that card, all players are given the opportunity to pull back their bets before the revealed card is burned.
    4. If any players remain, the hand continues normally.

    I don't know if that is any kind of "official protocol", but I've seen this come up multiple times, at different casinos, and it has always gone down like that.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  20. DonD

    DonD Super Moderator

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    To the best of my memory, this has always happened to me too.
     
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