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Video Poker VP - what would you do?

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by Corinne, Aug 14, 2013.

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  1. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    I have earmarked some money for Deuces Wild 3 play everywhere I gamble. I intend to play at $1 max bet. Question is, if the pay scale is better in high limit at $5 should I bet just one coin on that instead? I know I will be seriously irritated if I get a royal but it probably won't happen anyway as I tend to think it is less likely on DW than anything else due to holding the wild.

    Any thoughts anyone please?

    Corinne
     
  2. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Considering how much of your expected payout comes from the 5-coin bonus on the royal, I'm fairly sure that you'd be giving up any edge you got from the better paytable by not playing max coin. I can't find the distribution chart for DW at the moment, though, so it's possible I'm wrong about this, and it would depend on how big a difference there is between the $1 and the $5 machines (but I doubt it's big enough to override what you're losing by playing fewer coins).
     
  3. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    I don’t even know what the most common pay tables are for DW. So I can’t help you with expected return. Sorry.

    But, if you haven’t already, you’ll need to consider variance. Playing a one line $5 machine at three coins ($15) is going to result in more dramatic swings than playing a three line $1 machine at max ($15). So, the “proper” bankroll for playing the $5 machine is going to be higher than what you “should” need for playing the triple play $1 machine – even though you’re betting the same amount with each push of the button.
     
  4. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    This may be the worst idea ever.
     
  5. cap7557

    cap7557 Tourist

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    At max bet, the royal flush represents nearly 2% of the game's return.

    For short-coin bets, royals are worth little more than 0.5%, a penalty of nearly 1.5% trimmed from the game's return.

    Obviously you only want to choose the higher denom machine if the pay scale is superior, but a possible benefit is that when betting single-coin, you can vary from 1 to 3 hands without any further loss of return.

    At the dollar machine, you're stuck betting $15 always, but at the $5 machine with a better pay scale, you can vary your bets from $5 to $10 to $15, which may actually save you money.

    I hope that answers the question. Be careful. Las Vegas has a lot of Deuces Wild games with really bad pay scales.
     
  6. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    Thanks everyone for your replies. I'm thinking the better payscale of the $5 would be better playing one coin than max on $1. I tend to try for the four deuces as I'm unlikely to get the Royal. I realise though there's no point if the payscale is the same on both and will try to play Off Strip as much as I can as well which will be better. I did well at Ballys last time and the pay tables can only be better than that, those are bad. Thanks cap7557, hadn't really thought about varying the amount of hands. Think I need some more practise. First year I've really got into VP, still got a lot to learn, lol.

    Thanks again everyone for your comments.
     
  7. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    I think this depends on the pay schedule. He's right, you're giving up less than 1.5% playing 1-4 coins on the higher denomination machine. So, if the return of the higher denomination machine is greater than 1.5% of the lower denomination machine, you'll be saving money.

    But, where's the fun in trying to save less than one percent on your money while sacrificing the big pay day and excitement of hitting a royal flush?

    Unless you're chasing comps, I'd say this idea stinks.
     
  8. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    It's not just an issue if the pay table is the same on $1 and $5, though. Even if $5 is better, if it's not so much better to overcome the ~1.5% you're leaving on the table by not playing max coin, then you're losing out there as well. Looking at Aria on VPFree, for example, they've you can get 98.45% JoB at $1 and $2, while if you go up to $5 you can get 99.54% JoB. If that's the difference, then you're absolutely better off playing 5-credit $1 than 1-credit $5.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  9. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    No way would I ever recommended playing less than full coins.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. cap7557

    cap7557 Tourist

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    I guess it would help to know what's available in the actual casinos.

    Based on the vpfree2 listings, the best place on the strip for Deuces Wild may be Wynn/Encore, with the 98.9% "Airport" pay schedule available for dollars on various multi-line machines, including 3-play and Spin Poker.

    CET properties are almost certainly worse, and MGM properties are probably worse. I see 3-play at Luxor for dollars, but only on 2 machines.

    Casino Royale has 98.9% Deuces on a 50-play machine, and a 100-play machine, for denominations as low as a penny. The casino atmosphere is a cross between a college dorm and a dumpster.

    Off-strip properties offer better games generally, but not necessarily within your parameters. If you want 99.7% NSUD, it's usually only available in single-line.
     
  11. 5-card

    5-card Tourist

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    If you are playing 25c DW 3-play the game is probably 97% or lower. In Vegas and many cities around the country they have NSUD (99.73%) in the high limit room. The 25c DW 3-play has an expected loss of 3% of the $3.75 per hand 11c per hand. The $5 NSUD with 1-coin has an expected loss of 1.89% or 9c per hand.
    For every $100 bet your expected loss is $3 for 3-play and $1.89 for the single line.

    This is true on other games as well. The return is greater playing 1-coin on 9/6 JB than playing 5-coin on 8/5 JB.
     
  12. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    This is exactly what my thinking is. I will check out the paytable on the higher limit ones and the lower ones and if there is much of a difference play the $5 and just prey I get the deuces and not the RF, lol. Maybe I will go mad and play some $5 3 play on max, maybe not though, depends how the bankroll is holding up. I also think that because of the wilds I am less likely to get the RF than if I were to play JoB 1 coin.

    Of course we all probably know what's gonna happen, a RF on the main hand! Ouch. Hmm, hadn't thought of that before. Maybe I should just stick to playing Off Strip or Wynn or Casino Royale and forget the bad ones. Think that may be a better plan. We have a car so will be going Off Strip a fair bit anyway.

    Thanks again everyone. You are all extremely helpful on this site.

    Corinne
     
  13. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Basically this. If paytables are a significant change from the $1 to the $5 denomination, then that can be a reason to play one coin at the higher denomination. The two closest casinos by my house, it's better to play one quarter vs. 5 nickels from a return standpoint. And of course it's not nearly as fun when you hit the Royal. But fortunately, as long as she avoids CET VP garbage, this will be a non-issue as long as she insists on playing 3-play because now the best multiplay Deuces left in Vegas actually are all "Airport Deuces" (98.91% max) units. And of course these units definitely don't exist at the airport anymore. :(

    98.91% Deuces Wild (aka "Airport Deuces"/"Illinois Deuces") with max bet

    Royal 4000
    4 Deuces 1000
    Wild Royal 125
    5 of a Kind 75
    Straight Flush 45
    4 of a Kind 20
    Full House 20
    Flush 15
    Straight 10
    3 of a Kind 5

    With that in mind, I would suggest playing either at Wynn, Encore, Excalibur, or Luxor because these 4 casinos all have "Super Times Pay" available with this paytable for 3-play dollars according to VPFree2 (I personally added Luxor to the database in May), which would bump the game up to 99.19% and make the game a hell of a lot more fun, imo.

    The only other option that's reasonable for the level she is playing to play a single line of "Not So Ugly Ducks" (99.73% max) max-betting a $2 or $5 machine. This option is available at many off-strip casinos including Ellis Island. The paytable is the same as above except 5 of a Kind/Straight Flush are now 80/50.

    http://www.vpfree2.com/video-poker/search

    And you are right, Corrine, that you won't get the Royal as often because having to hold any deuce, and you're generally supposed to toss 2 to a Royal Ace high as well but getting a Royal in this game is still only 7% less likely than 9/6 JoB.
     
  14. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    Thanks Tringlomane. Hadn't thought about STP. Have now added those casinos to my notes. I tend to get bored by VP just playing one hand and STP may be the way to go. Love Ultimate X but it just always takes my money.

    Corinne
    Getting very excited, six days to go
     
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