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VP vs Slots?

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by Snickers99, Mar 23, 2015.

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  1. Snickers99

    Snickers99 Tourist

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    So I have a question. I haven't been playing VP for long. Low roller. .25 machines. So crappy pay tables. And it seems you usually earn comps at half the rate of slot players at CET. So does it ever become a better option to play something like a five-credit max quarter slot machine with full comp earning vs VP with crappy pay tables and half the comps? $1.25 for each spin. Is it not even close? Can you even figure something like that out since you don't know the pay tables of slot machines?
     
  2. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Well the variance will go way up with slots. Also the payback percentage may be higher even with the crappy tables at VP vs slots. Don't play for comps, but play what you enjoy.

    But you will probably lose money quicker at slots vs VP. But the swings winning vs losing would be bigger.
     
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  3. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Let's say it's real bad JoB and you're looking at 4% to 5% house edge. A quarter slot on the strip will have about an 8% HA on average according to reports. Plus variance will be higher with slots. $1 machines will be a little closer to the worst VP paytables like 6/5 JoB but you will need a bigger bankroll to reduce your risk ruin to get the same amount of coin-in.

    http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machine-payback-statistics.html#Nevada
     
  4. ziggyzambo

    ziggyzambo Tourist

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    I just want to address this part. You certainly aren't stuck with crappy paytables at quarter machines. Of course you're not going to find the best games on the strip, but you're not stuck with ~95% return that characterizes the really bad VP.

    I see you're headed to the Linq - they don't have great offerings, but you can play 7/5 Bonus poker with Super Times Pay, which works out to 98.29%. Not the best return in the world, but leagues better than slot machines.
     
  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Keep in mind the data you linked also includes video poker lumped in it!

    Generally speaking even with double the coin in needed for comps, you'll generally be losing as least less than half the money on VP vs. slots assuming one doesn't make terrible errors. VP will still be the better overall value unless maybe you start playing dollar slots and play the worst paytables of VP at dollars or higher. What sucks about the CET bartops for bigger players is that they don't get a paytable bump. Dollar+ players should really tip a CW well and just play on the floor there.
     
  6. franknic

    franknic Low-Roller

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    I'm reminded - play for possibility (slots) or probability in VP? Comp's? Sure, everyone wants to see them but first things first, those dollars in your pocket, 'invest' them wisely grasshopper.....
     
  7. downtowndonna

    downtowndonna Tourist

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    If you play VP, I suggest practicing first, so you play correctly. Each game plays dramatically differently, they have free trainers that warn you after you make the wrong play. Go to VPFREE2 dot com, and they will tell you the paytables for every casino in town, and where to find the ones with the best paybacks. There is usually only a few scattered through casinos, so it is up to you to find the best paytables. looks for 10/7 for bonus poker..if you play perfectly, it is the only game where player has advantage. it is like 101.something % freeslots has practice, so does bodog. And if you play slots, the worst ones are branded ones, like hangover. And penny slots are the worst. like 80% payback! It is better playing minimum bet of 25c on a 25c machine, than 25c on a penny machine. Your odds increase on each. I told a friend this after I read this..it is all mathmatics, yet they are convinced they win more with pennies. The LV gaming commission posts all paybacks on their website. If you are going to gamble, why not at least pick the casino's that pay you back the most. Also VPfree2 has all the information on each slotclub, and their paybacks on VP. Also gives hosts names and email address. Great website.
     
  8. downtowndonna

    downtowndonna Tourist

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    they have 25 cent machines downtown at 4 queens full pay JOB 9/6 and BP 10/7
     
  9. downtowndonna

    downtowndonna Tourist

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  10. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    Donna, I think you mean Double Bonus Poker at 10/7.

    One of the best games out there, but not a simple strategy to play correctly, particularly for a beginner.
     
  11. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    No, with slot machines you can't figure it out - two machines could be sitting side by side, exact same game even, but one could be set to a 94% payback and the other to an 89% payback.

    As you noticed, with most slot programs you earn points at about half the rate playing VP than you do playing slots. They are set up that way because even with pay tables that aren't so good the house edge on video poker is much smaller than the house edge on slots... so thats pretty common through most slot clubs.

    As for what to play: its more important to find a game you want to play than to play something you feel you have to play. The big thing with comps and offers is they get better the longer you play so sitting there for 30 minutes here and 30 minutes there playing some slots isn't really going to do much for you in the way of offers if you just don't like slots... but if you like slots and play and play and play all day long and get in a good solid 8-10 hours a day you can really rack up some good comps and future offers, but thats more going to be a result because of how long you played and how much coin through you had.

    Likewise, you should play video poker if you like playing video poker and not if you don't. Because of randomness and variance just because a VP game has a smaller house edge than a slot it doesn't mean you are going to win more (or lose less) playing video poker over slots.

    Going back to time played: thats why a lot of slot players seem to get better comps even though they might be lower rollers than you. If you are playing a quarter VP machine at 5 credits per spin if you put in $20 you get only 16 hands before you have gone through your bankroll once... for slot players $20 in a machine gets them 80 spins at a quarter or 40 spins at 50c a spin. Because they go through their bankroll slower and the variety out there for slots they, slot players, tend to be able to play for long sessions (my wife and I enjoy slots and have at times played up to 16 hours a day in Vegas)
     
  12. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    For non Wild games, I'd argue it's one of the hardest along with 9/7 Triple Double Bonus (99.58%). Full Pay "All American"/"USA poker" (100.72%) is probably the worst of all by a good margin since you also hold 3 card straights and 2 card straight flushes, but that paytable no longer exists anywhere to my knowledge. :cry:

    Funny that they would call a game where straights, flushes, full houses get paid equally (8 for 1 each) as "American".
     
  13. Yokel

    Yokel VP Player

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    Thanks for the link to the Las Vegas vpFREE2 regional summary. I just want to add that if you click on any casino name there, you will see details like locations of the good machines in the casino. For example, here's the detail page for the Four Queens: http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/four-queens-hotel-casino

    (I'm adding this because a lot of people think the regional summaries are all there is to vpFREE2.com.)
     
  14. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    Threads like this are what keep me as an interested reader on VMB... I just LOVE the knowledge some have and share with regards to the nuts and bolts of gaming!!!
     
  15. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Much like the real foghorn leghorn... I can never tell if you are serious! And I like it!
     
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  16. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    Nah, Nah boy... ya doin' all wrong!!! LOL

    Nope... this time I really am serious... I DO like it when Tringlomane and Auggie and others weigh in on this kinda stuff. Gambling obviously has a lot to do with math and they understand it and translate it very well. My and my cousin Rhode Island Red both tip our caps!

    "Camp town races sing this song do, da, do da,... camp town races 5 miles long... ohhhh da do da day!!!"
     
  17. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Hahah...

    You threw me off the the LOVE.... just like how I know you LOVE people who take cookies and apples from the buffets... :poke:
     
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  18. irishdave

    irishdave VIP Whale

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    Pay tables aren't great at the TAG sports bar in the Linq, but they comp a lot of craft brews....just play slow!!!
     
  19. CoveredinBeer

    CoveredinBeer Low-Roller

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    I love both slots and VP. You can't really answer this question. Play what you like but there is no sure thing. VP can kill you just as fast as slots. The difference is strategy. I like to think I play perfect VP but I know I make some mistakes. And it took me a lot of experience to get to that point. Slots you just press a button.
     
  20. Snickers99

    Snickers99 Tourist

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    Awesome advice everyone...thanks a lot.

    Some thoughts (without multi-quoting everybody):

    I used to play penny slots but then read the basic philosophy...penny slots are good for extending your bankroll/time since you often win less than you wagered. But you have less chance of hitting something big. Quarter (and up) slots are the opposite...seems the least you can win is at least your wager back if you're playing one of those simple 5-line types. Your money could go fast but you have a better chance of hitting something big. Please correct me if that's not right. I just switched over to quarter slots and that got me thinking about VP vs quarter slots.

    vpFREE2 is awesome. Been there a lot. I know you have to hunt to find those better/good machines. Seems like Gold Coast and Palms are good. Of course, not CET properties.

    I actually bought software to practice VP. Since I'm just starting, it's JoB or BP...easiest strategy to remember for me. I usually bring a cheat sheet with me in case I forget what to do.

    Agree with Smartone...great site to get questions like this answered. Never going to think I'm too smart to ask for advice.

    I’m sure there will be times where I’ll want to play VP and times I just want to sit there and push a button.

    Thanks everyone!
     
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