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Video Poker VP question

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by Loparo34, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Loparo34

    Loparo34 Low-Roller

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    I know there has to be a thread around. I'm not big into playing VP all too much. Usually a blackjack, holdem type of player but when I'm in vegas this month I want to venture out and play some more VP.. I never knew there were better paying machines than others. Can someone explain how 1 is better than the other I see the %'s and what not but can someone explain it so I can completely understand? Also what are the top 10 machines on the strip.. I know alot of people say downtown is better but can someone give me a couple lists of best machines known on and off strip!

    Thanks for the help!
     
  2. fenway68

    fenway68 High-Roller

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    here is a great place to start...Trig is the resident "expert".. although this is just Bartop stuff

    http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?111193-A-Video-Poker-Primer-with-Bartop-Listings-and-Better-Nickel-Options!&p=1005725#post1005725

    vpfree2 is a great website to find machines you want

    wizardofodds.com has great reference to how to understand the %'s...its all about the pay-table, and you need to learn at least basic strategy...start with the wizard...

    the top 10 machines are probably in high limit rooms, the "top ten" is dependent on what level you want to play at.
     
  3. Loparo34

    Loparo34 Low-Roller

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    Awesome thank you!!
     
  4. smerrian

    smerrian Low-Roller

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    Video poker differs from slots...in a good way.
    In slots, there is a random number generator (RNG). When you pull the handle (or push the button) the computer will pick a random number between say 000-000-000-001 to 999-999-999-998. This is 1 trillion different numbers. Of these numbers, one number (say 000-654-012-375) may pay out the grand prize while many many numbers may be programed to pay out nothing. When you add up all of the pay outs for all of the trillion different numbers you can figure out the percent payback of the machine. The trouble for players is the question, "How do you know what the computer chip is to return?" and the answer is, "You don't." One double diamonds game could have a lot of numbers set for pay outs totaling a 97% return and the double diamonds machine right next to it could be set with very few numbers set for pay outs totaling an 83% return. There is no way of knowing what your slot machine is set to pay out.
    In video poker, each hand is paid with a deck of 52 cards. Each card dealt, either on the draw or re-draw is totally random. There is no RNG other than to pick a card. As an example, every so often you get dealt 4 cards to a Royal Flush with a fifth loser card. You are going to throw away the loser and hope to pick up the card you need to complete the Royal Flush. After dealing 5 cards from the deck, there are now 47 cards left. Your chance of getting the Royal Flush is 1:47. On average, this will happen to you 46 times before you actually hit the Royal Flush on the 47th time. If you're into math, you can calculate this for all hands...3 to a flush, a pair, etc. And it has been done. The deck of 52 cards never changes. The randomness of the deal never changes. The casino can't change a deck of cards (at least, not legally). So, the only way for the casino to change the payout on the game is to change the payable. Instead of paying out 9 coins for a full house they'll only pay out 8 coins or even 7 coins. They short pay the winners. But this isn't hidden in the computer program like on a slot machine, the pay outs are listed right on the screen! A full pay Jacks or Better machine pays 9 coins for a full house and 6 coins for a flush. We short hand this as 9/6 JoB. Math types have calculated that this game, when played with perfect strategy, will pay back 99.54%. Note that you have to play perfect strategy. EACH TYPE OF GAME HAS ITS OWN STRATEGY, the strategy for JoB is different than for Double Double Bonus or Deuces Wild. But on the Strip, the best JoB game you are going to find would be 8/5 JoB which pays much less...but still much more than slots. Downtown you'll find 9/6 JoB. To find the best games go to: www.vpfree2.com and enter in Las Vegas and the game you want to play and locations will pop up. Click on the location and information directing you to the exact machines will pop up. Want to learn strategy? Bob Dancer gives free lessons at Southpoint. He also has a program to learn and practice on your pc for around $45. It will save you that much on your first trip to Las Vegas.
     
  5. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    Great explanation by smerrian. Also always play 5 coins, you'll notice all of the payouts scale the same except for the royal flush. You get a bonus. So play 5 coins of the denom you're comfortable with weather it's dimes, quarters or even $5.
     
  6. Loparo34

    Loparo34 Low-Roller

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    Wow that's crazy. I RARELY ever put any money in slots because they always say that's what makes the casino all their money and that's how they pay their workers... But this is very interesting. Thanks for the knowledge now I can take this and continue to research on those sites and really learn it.. I see a lot of success on VP so should be fun. Thank you!
     
  7. Loparo34

    Loparo34 Low-Roller

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    smerrian... by looking on the vpfree ive noticed alot of them are in the high limit section. so would you say a lot of the better machines are there?
     
  8. fenway68

    fenway68 High-Roller

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    the wizard has some "training" games, will tell you if you made the right choices for some of the games, good starter practice; I spent some $$ on an iPad app that I found helpful to practice, WinPoker; there are others but I find this one to be decent enough for me. not available on iPhone tho.

    Wizard has basic, intermediate and advanced strategies...play as well as you feel comfortable; my goal was to be able to play at least basic strategy drunk as well as I play advanced strategy sober!

    I have Wizards BP and DDB strategy pages bookmarked on my iPhone for easy reference when I am playing for some of the more difficult decisions.
     
  9. irishdave

    irishdave VIP Whale

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    As pointed out above, read Tring's outstanding summary. Then go here: http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/ The wizard has good explanations plus simple strategies and nearly 100% correct strategies for every game. He also has an free online simulator you can practice on that will also warn you of strategy errors. Learn the Jacks or Better simple strategy first, as it is the easiest to learn and also works well for Bonus Poker and Bonus Poker Deluxe. Tring also has the variances from that strategy for the higher variance games here http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?112319-How-do-you-know-ALL-the-video-poker-strategies&p=1020345#post1020345 Some consider JoB a bit boring, as the others have higher payouts for 4-of-a-kinds (leading to higher variance and sacrificing full house or lower payouts) but Job or BP are a good places to start and low variance.

    Don't ever play Super Times Pay...it is the crack cocaine of VP and you will never be able to go back!!! Seriously, STP adds a fun dimension, improves your odds slightly, and it's a blast. And it doesn't require any strategy changes!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  10. irishdave

    irishdave VIP Whale

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    The payables are better, but you will blow through your bankroll much more quickly. See Tring's micro roller section for good places to start. Also, strategy errors will cost you much more than a one or two percent on a payable.

    PS, you can print out the strategies and use them in the casinos. Technically, using electronic devices is illegal...don't know if they enforce that, but I always have my strategy cards out, even in HL rooms
     
  11. Loparo34

    Loparo34 Low-Roller

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    Awesome thanks Irish for the advice!
     
  12. bluesdude

    bluesdude Low-Roller

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    I cant stress enough to practice, practice, practice before you put any money into a machine. Pick one or two games to practice on. JOB or BP are great starter games. JOB is the base for most all other games. If you don't practice, you run the risk of having a bad VP experience. I am no expert on VP but I know the more I practice at home, the better my experience is in the casinos.
     
  13. smerrian

    smerrian Low-Roller

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    Absolutely not. HL areas have many good games but sometimes the best games are right outside the high limit area, or by the cage, or by the casino entrances. Every company does it their own way. Stations casinos actually have $0.25 games near the entrances that pay back over 100%! That means the game's in your favor if you play perfect strategy. They don't want to give away the store, so the games are only in $0.25 denomination so that you can only win a few dollars a day on average...not worth the time for a professional but great for someone that loves vp and just wants to kill a bunch of time playing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  14. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    It's shocking how often high limit rooms have inferior games, but OTOH, they are maybe hoping on catching some unsuspecting people playing high denom that don't know/care.

    Bartops almost always have the worst paytables in the casino, exception some downtown places.
     
  15. CtheWorld

    CtheWorld Tourist

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    I played this weekend ($1 DDB) got a 10X multiplier and ended up with 3 aces and a kicker. One ace away from $20,000. That's why STP is addictive.
     
  16. Champster1

    Champster1 High-Roller

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    Practice is critical. I would suggest investing $9.95 into videopoker.com. That gives you full access for 1 month on vpcom.Videopoker.com has the top 15/20 vp games plus it has a training mode that will let you know if you hold the wrong cards. It also scores how many right and wrong decisions you make. You can also practice quick quads, 5 times pay, ten times play etc AND in training mode too. A must have for none who wants to make $$ on vp or at least lose less! I don't renew mine until a month or so before I leave for Vegas. The free version does not have the training ability but you can still play all forms of vp! I can't suggest enough how helpful vp.com has been to me

    As far as a lot of vp on the strip being in the high limit area. Thats because the vp offerings on the strip are horrible. You have to be willing to play at least $1.00 ($5.00 a spin) to find at least 7/5 BP progressive. Off strip the choices increase greatly. Gold coast, Palms, Orleans and Palace Station all offer full pay quarter vp. No such thing on the strip. I stopped playing slots 8 years ago.
     
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  17. Loparo34

    Loparo34 Low-Roller

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    Awesome thank you! I did notice wizardofodds.com has it where if you make a decision that they don't recommend it tells you.. thanks for the help..I'll check it out
     
  18. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    There is this trainer. It is old as hell but free and fits single line VP will not help for ULT X games but will for STP or DSTP since those follow standard strategy. You can customize paytables. You can play in flash card mode so you do not have to see a draw.

    www.wolfvideopoker.com/FVP.htm
     
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  19. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    A little late here, but I was in Vegas. Not anymore. :(

    As others have said good VP is a challenge to find on the strip, but there are a few options.

    Cromwell has the best VP in the CET Vegas empire right now for quarters. The bank is pretty easy to find, it's right near the Las Vegas Blvd entrance and the bank has a sign pointing out "Up to 99.73% payback" (that game is Deuces Wild by the way). One minor drawback those is that it earns points at one fifth the normal rate.

    Cosmo has 100 play machines that have 8/5 Bonus, 9/7/5 Double Bonus, and 9/6 DDB for dimes. It also has 98.91% for pennies only. Now a max bet is $50 at dimes, but you don't have to bet that. You can bet any number of lines and bet 5 credits per line. One is just outside the high limit room, and the other one is near CliQue ($1 minimum bet required)

    Circus Circus also has a 50c Aces and Eights progressive that is always positive. The bank near the West Bar has the sequential royal (royal with cards in order) at $39.8k; I didn't hit it. But whatever you do, don't bet 4 credits like the lady next to me!
     
  20. gambler

    gambler VIP Whale

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    That's so true Flusher. I know we've often checked the high limit rooms for odds on VP and found them less than what's available on the floor.

    Loparo,a good free trainer can be found at http://www.freeslots.com/poker.htm. It's adjustable for pay tables and has the warning option to correct errors. From what I've seen, it seems to be correct. You have to be careful when you find free trainers online, whether they are for video poker or blackjack. They are not all "accurate" trainers.