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Video Poker VP other than JoB

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by johnvic, Sep 6, 2013.

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  1. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    I practice 9/6 JoB on my iPhone and am decent at it. When I'm in Vegas I play it a bit. My next trip will be a downtown trip, staying at GN. I won't only be playing there at all, visiting various casinos, but mostly playing downtown.

    Is there a better game to play downtown? I have 6 weeks to practice.

    Thanks!
     
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  2. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    Define better. People play JoB because at full pay it has a low house advantage and low variance.

    There are other games that have a better payback, but much higher variance. I would necessarily call that better though.
     
  3. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    Good point. I was thinking better payback but I like the low variance for a game I can play while drinking at the Boar bar. But if a game had higher payback with not much better variance then I would try it.
     
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  4. Molder66

    Molder66 Low-Roller

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    If you have six weeks, practice up on Bonus Poker, Bonus Poker Deluxe and Double Double Bonus.

    Play through all the different games and you will get a feel for the variance of each. This will help you decide on which game fits you the best.

    Denomination also will help dictate the game.
    Personally, I play DDBP at the quarter level but I will switch to Bonus Deluxe at the dollar level for the lower variance.

    You will also need to be up to speed on pay tables.
    This is a big one helping you to decide which game is best to play at each location. You will find different pay tables on the same games even in the same casino.
    Hell, sometimes they are next to each other. :beer:
     
  5. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    Yeah, I'm a big fan of Drunk Boner Poker.. er.. Bonus Poker. It's the one I play most often at the bar. I get the extras for the 4OAK, but the variance isn't so crazy that I'll feel bad for less than perfect strategy.

    Coaster Kikky plays with me sometimes and says "I don't think that was the right strategy" to which I say "Oopsie! Bartender! Get this woman another drink. She's still playing perfect strategy!" :drunk:
     
  6. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    Actually, Fremont right across the street from GN offers 99.95% pick em poker. This is actually about the only game that's lower variance than JOB, but isn't commonly mentioned since it's so rare these days. Full Pay Deuces Wild (FPDW) is another good one that pays over 100%, doesn't have terribly high variance, and is pretty simple to learn. It's still available at a number of places off strip. Here's a full list:

    http://www.vpfree2.com/casinos/by-region/las-vegas.html

    As a side note, you can use JOB strategy while playing BP and not give up any potential return. You can also use it for Bdlx and only give up 0.03%. Strategy for DB or DDB is totally different though and you will give up over 0.5% if you use JOB strategy for either of these. Here's a chart that shows the cost of using the wrong (non-ideal) strategy on various games:

    http://www.videopokerhelp.net/wrong_strat.html
     
  7. DrLect

    DrLect Low-Roller

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    I think Sonya has the absolutely right idea! Gambling is supposed to be fun, not a business.
     
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  8. smartone

    smartone VIP Whale

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    May I inquire as to why you stay at GN, but "won't be playing there"?
     
  9. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    I've been a strip person and like a nicer room. GN seems to have the best rooms from what I've read. The actual property has the feel of a place that I'd like to stay at when I've visited it. I will play poker there but they don't seem to have good VP, especially at the .25 level.
     
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  10. AlwaysVegas

    AlwaysVegas Low-Roller

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    I have been playing intermediate to advanced strategy on FPDW for several years now. I find learning the strategies to be fun, but it's not for everyone. Knowing I am playing close to or over 100% is a great feeling and not one you'll get with many games. I've also minimized my losses or come out ahead since I started. Now THAT is extra fun for me.

    However, I understand that other players just prefer to make their own decisions and not follow a strategy. As long as everyone is having fun, do what works for you!
     
  11. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    The Four Queens has the best quarter Double Bonus in the world along the back wall. Added to the full pay 10/7 pay table is a progressive royal. It will earn cash back and get you offers for 3 free nights for future trips as well as generous freeplay. I put most of my VP bankroll in this game each trip and usually score 2 blocks of 3 free nights that include Friday and Saturday.
    One block of nights per month is at your discretion.
    Another block is a free slot tournament that is well worth playing.
    All can be earned by play on this high EV machine.
    That may not be a draw if you need the better GN rooms. For me, free weekends is a huge value and makes the DB my best play even if I just break even.

    You will need some time to practice the counterintuitive strategy, but as that helpful chart indicates, even using JOB strategy makes it a wash with the other game.

    Still, at least concentrate on how to play Aces and when to hold two high cards with another suited card for the flush rather than 2 for the royal. And I carry a card or printout showing correct strategy so I can look up the harder plays.

    With correct strategy royals come less often than in JOB, 46,000 hands rather than 40,000. However, the great pays on quads make collecting winning streaks more lucrative.

    The downside is that the volatility is higher on Double Bonus than JOB, but still lower than on DDB and the DDB will not have an EV over the DB. Volatility may make it not your best choice, but you could put just a limited amount through and if the volatility is in your favor, cash out a nice win as compared with a smaller win on JOB.
     
  12. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    Thanks to all. I'm going to practice Double Bonus Poker using Dewey suggestion to use the JoB strategy with some changes.
     
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  13. BlackjackCat

    BlackjackCat Tourist

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    Dewey sounds like he knows whats up. I'm gonna brush up on DB as well!
     
  14. dewey089

    dewey089 Guru of Value

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    Well, it really is a matter of taste. I like JOB or those full play Deuces in dimes at Sam's Town when I am low bankrolled. But if I can stay with the volatility, I like it that a 10/7, trip-score- altering jackpot can happen just with Aces or with a few quads in a row.
    10/7 is really a quad game. If you get them, you are golden. If they never come, you are dirt. Still, it is better than waiting just for the Royal to feel like a winner.

    Here is how I refresh. I use the part of the tutor that only presents a hand, lets choice happen, and indicates whether it is a good choice or not. That speeds up the process as opposed to virtual play where I might see the outcomes. That way my brain is focused just on learning perfect play rather than having that inner voice say, "Well, ya held those two last time and they didn't do crap, so..."

    I often set a couple cards and play every variation. I have particular trouble remembering what to do with two face cards other than J-Q so I may put in K-Q or K-J, suited or unsuited, and play a while until my mind refreshes the correct choices. In training mode, not being distracted by wins or losses, I can eventually get the right plays most of the time.

    In the first book I read years ago, Dancer's book, there was a down and dirty list of things to work on that would dramatically melt down that EV difference between the JOB score and the possible EV of DB. If you can find that, it is a great way to begin.

    I find writing VP strategy is very confusing and difficult, so others may find bits of error in what I say, but I'll share a bit of my thinking when I play:

    Flushes:
    Since they pay high, you hold three to the flush, even with one high card and sometimes even with two.(not with jack queen suited, the strongest two suited high cards)
    It is hard not to pick a single Ace over Ace with any two others suited, but it is the correct play.


    When the cards fall so that a single Ace is tempting, I think this way:

    If the Ace comes with two other suited cards, I play all three.

    I look next to see if there is a ten. I won't ever play the Ace- ten, but if it is unsuited, I'll play only the Ace, but if it is suited, I'll play the Ace with another unsuited picture unless all cards to be tossed are 6 and above. Then I revert to holding the single Ace because the wheel is in the mathematics with no penalties.

    If none of that applies, I look to see if there is a throw away card that is the same suit as the Ace. If so, I'll hold any other unsuited face card. If not, I hold the Ace by itself.

    Unless there are four cards to a wheel (A,2,3,4,5) I hate holding them, but that is the recommended play.

    ****
    Having patterns of thinking for those counterintuitive or complex plays is easier sometimes than looking things up on a chart.
    The penalty card 9, for example, will change plays with two high cards that are not Aces except for J-Q suited which are so strong, they are not affected. Try playing variations on K-J suited in your tutor and you will see how 9 changes the choices, moving away from the Royal and to the 3 for the flush. I think a good deal about 9's when I play.

    *********
    There is great controversy over two pair when one pair is Aces. Technically, we are supposed to hold the 2 pair in 10/7 but just the Aces in 9/7. The difference is so small that many players only hold Aces.
    And a dealt full house with three Aces gets split to try for the fourth Ace.

    **********
    Having a mental list of odd counterintuitive plays will help. And then when multiple choices arise, having a strategy card or printout will let you balance choices, if you can develop the patience to stop, take a drink and look them up.

    I liked the Dancer book on 10/7, but I don't think I have it anymore. I used to take it with me.

    The nice thing about 10/7 at the Four Queens is that the added benefits will cancel out some mistakes. There is the progressive royal to boost the EV. There is cashback. And the rooms and freeplay are generous. Many people only figure in the math of the pay tables, but often generous promotions add a good bit when comparing EV. One fellow on another post on the Eastside Cannery said that the good paytables cause him to ignore the poor and inept promotions, but even my first tutor, Jean Scott, taught me that you figure in all the coupons and freebies and offers as well as look for good paytables.

    And it is hard to argue with other amenities that come with VP, like those who best like Boar's Head JOB because they can sit at the bar, sip the Black Chip Porter, and scratch off a card now and then. The ambiance of the Four Queens 10/7 is not as good as that. If I could drink more, I might be more at the Boars Head. For one thing it is hard to play 10/7 when drunk.
    Well, happy practicing.
     
  15. RIRugrat

    RIRugrat Low-Roller

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    To add to what Dewey stated about the benefits of playing VP at a bar like Boar's Bar at MSS is that they comp top shelf vodka like Ketel One and Ciroc. I just learned of this when I was there last week. I'm not a beer drinker so the microbrews weren't a big draw for me.

    Hard to get Ciroc comped anywhere downtown and even many places on the strip so that was a nice surprise. Four Queens (which I also like for VP) only comps Absolut and Tito's as their top shelf vodka (ugh).

    Chris
     
  16. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    Tito's is great! Maybe not on par with the ultra premiums, e.g. Chopin, but excellent for the price point.
     
  17. da1chifan

    da1chifan High-Roller

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    If you play upstairs at Chicago Brewing Co at Four Queens, they will comp anything. I had a few Grey Goose martinis, not sure what other vodkas they had, though. They have 8/5 JoB with royal progressive. Not sure of other paytables on other games.
     
  18. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    I like the Boar Bar a lot and appreciate the fact that I'm being comped a micro brew beer.
     
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  19. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    I only play Deuce's Wild. JOB just isn't fun to me. I hit 4 Deuces for $500 on my last trip, and have 4 Deuces for $1000 on another trip. Deuces Royals pay 125 units, which is okay with me, since I have given up all hope of hitting a Royal at the $1.00 level in JOB.

    Small victories add up.
     
  20. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    How are the DW paytables at various bartops? We always read about full pay JOB and BP at certain places, never see much mentioned about DW though.
     
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