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Video Poker VP DDB Vs TDB

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by WHIVGOYTUBE, Aug 4, 2013.

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  1. WHIVGOYTUBE

    WHIVGOYTUBE MIA

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    Hey....

    I just got turned on to TDB.

    From reading these forums,

    -------------------------------------------------

    Question.....

    I know in DDB, you pay for the quads by losing 1:1 on the two pair.

    I'm a newbie on TDB......

    -----------------------------------------------------

    TDB

    I Understand the hold on this game is the trips paying 1:2

    -----------------------------------------------------

    So, is it worth it?

    So... you love the game? :eek:
     
  2. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    It's too swingy for me personally. You really depend on the kicker quads to keep you in the game. Also on the strip, it's generally easier to find better DDB tables I think. One notable exception is that some high limit rooms offer 9/7 TDB, which is better than 9/6 DDB. If the full house/flush payouts match though, DDB is the better game. Also when one plays 9/6 TDB or higher, then holds like 3 to a flush sometimes start becoming correct, ugh. Also holding the ace only is even a stronger play in TDB. Holding an Ace and offsuit face instead is now a lot worse, costing you four times as much as it would in DDB.
     
  3. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    I think of TDB as a loooooooooooooooong term game...

    If you have 10, 15 or 20 minutes to kill and want to play some VP then you should be doing something like JoB or DW.

    If you are going to play for 1, 2 or maybe 3 hours then DDB is a pretty good game where you can put in the time to hit a few hands.

    With TDB there is so much weight on the 4OAK hands that you really have to put in a lot of play in order to hit them: with proper play the odds of making any 4OAK hand is about 1 in 400 or so, so you want to put in many hours, either in a session or over time, in order to give yourself a chance to hit those hands... and you need a big enough bankroll to handle the downward swings while you are playing out for the big hands to hit.
     
  4. Guardian

    Guardian Low-Roller

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    Played TDB yesterday for 3 hours and got quad 6's, K's, and quad A's twice, without the kicker unfortunately. I counted missing those low cards with the kicker by one card at least 12 times. My new fav game. FYI-Playing quarters. Ended up even for the day.
     
  5. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

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    The only time DDB & TDB are worth it is for short term play (say a few hours) where getting a high paying 4-of-a-kind is your only realistic hope if walking away a winner. But you run the risk of walking away a big loser too.

    With long term play (say a week or more), where you're realistically looking for a royal, you are much better off with as low of a variance game as you can find. Lowest variance will keep you closest to the expectation line. The small differences in percent return of the various flavors of video poker aren't going to have as much impact on your bankroll as variance. You don't need to play video poker for very long to figure that out.

    Variance of Jacks or Better (JOB) is around 20. DDB poker has a variance of about twice that (around 40), and TDB poker has a variance of about twice that of DDB (around 80). Those are huge differences.

    It's not the odds that ruin you in video poker, it's the variance.

    In statistical terms, variance is standard deviation squared. In common gambling terms, variance is how far we should expect the actual result of the game to be from the expectation like at any given point of the game. More precisely, there is a two-thirds probability that you will be within 1 variance unit above or below the expectation line at any time during the game.

    So soon after you begin a game of JOB (before the odds have had time to do much damage to your expectation), you could easily be 20 betting units ahead or behind. But at the same time in a game of DDB you could easily be 40 betting units ahead or behind, and the same game of TDB could easily be 80 betting units ahead or behind. Get the point?

    On a long term playing basis, you are always better off playing 9/6 JOB than ANY flavor of bonus poker, if you can find it. A lower variance game will keep your bankroll under control while you want for your next royal.
     
  6. ACMike

    ACMike High-Roller

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    Except that in DDB you can get some quite nice payouts from 4OAK's, not just Royals, e.g., 4 aces, 2s, 3s or 4s (with or w/out kicker). So I don't consider DDB as simply a "waiting for the Royal" game. Of course, you are correct that the variance is higher than JOB, but I find DDB more fun personally.
     
  7. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

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    As I said, for short term gain where you are only playing a few hours the high variance games are the only way you'll accomplish that. But in the long run you won't be any farther ahead with DDB or TDB than you will be with JOB.

    Remember, all that money that you might win with terrific 4-of-a-kinds with kickers is going to be taken back in lousy pays for smaller hands.

    If you need more thrill in your video poker returns I suggest that you play a higher denomination on a lower variance game.
     
  8. ACMike

    ACMike High-Roller

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    The only difference is getting even 1:1 instead of 2:1 for 2 pair. I'm not disputing anything you said about variance, I just personally find it more fun to have the possibility of bigger payouts instead of grinding away for hours for small wins. To each his own. In the long run, we'll all be dead. :peace:
     
  9. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

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    That's all? Losing that will eat you alive.

    But yes, to each his own. At least you aren't playing slots.
     
  10. flysrb

    flysrb Hey Now!

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    Hey Now!!!!

    Variance is the main reason I play 8/5 BP most of the time. Higher than JoB, much lower than DDB. I play in AC every Couple of months, only in Vegas once a year. No good DW in AC, but plenty of BP...
     
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  11. WHIVGOYTUBE

    WHIVGOYTUBE MIA

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    Everyone is right

    I believe everyone is right about this...

    First.... TDB... The thrill of the kicker quads is what all VP players live for.

    When I saw a Aces + kicker = a Royal Flush Payout, Yea, this is my game. :nworthy:

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    But as others said, it's a roller coaster. :eek:

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    So I took a second look at the pay tables again in TDB.

    I agree with the other side of the fence, no real payouts without
    a kicker. Ouch! :cry:

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    So my decision is to continue with DDB, for that has been tough enough.

    If I had money to burn, oooooooh that would be fun. :evillaugh

    But I am already in the burn playing DDB (see my other post about DDB on the Ace) with this game. :grrr:

    But I LOVE the thought of two playing hands equal to a RF payout. :faint:

    Thanks to all that replied.. :beer:
     
  12. Dean Martin

    Dean Martin VIP Whale

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    TDB is just too wide of swings for me to play other than a quick hit w/ a $100 on a $1 game. The lower 2pr and 3OAK payouts just kill you long term.

    I love DDB and for the life of me can't understand why anybody plays JOB over BP.
     
  13. Guardian

    Guardian Low-Roller

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    DDB

    Went to Greektown in Detroit yesterday and played 7/5 DDB for quarters.:yuck:
    But three hours later after hitting quad aces twice as well as quad threes twice without hitting a kicker, i went home $500 richer.:wave2:
    Got to know when to hold em and when to fold your tent and leave.:peace:
     
  14. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

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    It's all about staying alive while waiting for the royal. When you play JOB instead of BP you cut your variance in half.
     
  15. flysrb

    flysrb Hey Now!

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    Hey Now!
    very true.... with a limited BR, JoB will usually allow it to go farther. But BP is more entertaining for me for the hours I usually put in.
     
    HEY NOW! NYE in AC!!!!!!!
    Hey Now! 6 days in Biloxi....plus early Mardi Gras Parades!!!
  16. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I'll play whichever game pays more because JoB/BP more or less play similarly to me. Unless you have 9/6 JoB available, the higher game is usually BP. It almost always is the case on the Vegas Strip. The bigger quad payouts on As-4s are nice too. But the game at home I play though is 35/8/5 Bonus. Pays better than 9/6 JoB, but basically a JoB clone. DDB is more fun when the quads are coming...but with they aren't it's definitely harsh.
     
  17. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

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    When I play video poker I always play full-pay 9/6 JoB. I don't gamble on the Strip -- ever. I like the Strip for sight-seeing, eating, and entertainment, but I never gamble there.
     
  18. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    Is this because you play for comps elsewhere, because there are plenty of Strip 9/6 JOB options for every denomination level ($0.25 NYNY; $0.50 TI; $1 MGM, Luxor, Excalibur, TI, NYNY w/LVH, GC and Palms nearby)?

    I am somewhat new to Video Poker (a few years now) and wasn't aware MGM properties offered 9/6 JOB until this year. 9/5 JOB is the best CET offers in Vegas unless you play $5 (and they reduced points for these machines).

    If I'm doing well, I may give a 3 line $1 a chance at MGM and see if I can start getting MILFe comps again.
     
  19. ajonate

    ajonate Low-Roller

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    That's true, you can find 9/6 JoB on the Strip in higher denominations. Elsewhere you can even find it in nickels, still with cash-back players club benefits.
     
  20. Viva Las Vegas

    Viva Las Vegas Ramblin' Gamblin' Man

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    I didn't realize you were local - they have the widest selection of denominations at very nice casinos. My brother normally plays at the JW Marriott.

    I learned about the 9/6 JOB w/ Super Times Pay at Gold Coast from poster tringlomine (never played the game before) and I'm really looking forward to hitting that machine this trip. I also haven't played at Boars Head bar and I'm looking forward to a steady stream of craft beers and FP JOB and may play the 100% version at Eastside Cannery if I make it up Boulder Hwy. I love the variance for JOB and considering my play is limited to Vegas trips, I can stretch my bankroll for my long trips (10-14 days - I can't deal w/ TSA and other hassles for short trips).
     
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