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Table Games VP, Craps, Blackjack Questions

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by clippercfx, Oct 3, 2012.

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  1. clippercfx

    clippercfx Tourist

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    In January I will be making my triumphant return to Las Vegas after an absence of more than two years ... (back in the good old days I used to make five or six trips per year, and post to an old Vegas message board every day!)

    My big question is about full-pay video poker in the 25-cent denomination. Back in the day, we knew of two places that had it: The Palms and Red Rock Station. We will still be visiting the Palms, so I'm wondering if they still have full-pay VP for quarters. As for Red Rock Station, we won't be visiting there on this trip, since the visit to Red Rock Station was always part of a visit to relatives who lived in Summerlin but have since moved back East. So what are some other properties that have full-pay VP for quarters that we might visit?

    Also:

    What's the latest news on craps conditions at our favorite haunt, Casino Royale? Is it still 100x odds on a $5 pass line bet, but only 20x odds on a pass line bet less than $5? Does Casino Royale remain unrivaled for favorable craps conditions, or is there some other place that now offers the same kind of odds?

    What's the best place to find favorable blackjack conditions within walking distance of the Mirage (where we will be staying)? Is it the Mirage itself? We're looking for 3:2 blackjack with NO continuous shuffle machines, don't care how many decks.

    Finally, one quick non-gaming question: how are the cocktail waitresses at the Hard Rock looking these days?

    Thanks,

    clippercfx

    P.S. Hello to any old friends who might remember me from back in the day!
     
  2. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    I can answer your blackjack question.

    I stayed at The Mirage over labor day weekend. They have plenty of decent 3:2 tables. There are some tables with continuous shuffler machines, but there seemed to be an equal number of shoe tables as well.

    I'm just a basic strategy player so I actually prefer the CSMs, but you'll be able to find what you want there.
     
  3. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    Hard Rock CWs are hot hot hot!
     
  4. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    Why would you prefer the CSM as a basic strategy player? Is it benificial, or negligible?
     
  5. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    At what bet level?

    If your main concern is just 3:2 and no shuffler, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Saw that at Mirage and TI at $10 tables and up while I was there.

    The issue rules wise, is finding S17. I was only looking at $25 and under tables but did not see a single S17 table my whole week in Vegas ... even downtown.
     
  6. Tree DA

    Tree DA High-Roller

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    Statistically, it's a very very small edge to the player vs multi-deck shoes.
     
  7. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I would not worry about it.

    The CSM actually has less house edge, but you play more hands in the same time and there still is a house edge, so it may still be worse for you.
     
  8. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    The Palms still has .25 full pay VP.

    3:2 BJ with decent (not great -- mostly H17) rules is available at pretty much every MGM property. Oddly, Excalibur is the worst with no surrender.
     
  9. clippercfx

    clippercfx Tourist

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    Thanks for all of the great replies, keep them coming!

    Is surrender allowed at the 3:2 no-CSM tables in the Mirage? Say, $15 min?

    clippercfx
     
  10. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    I've never played a $15 min there...always $25 min. But it's very likely that you'll find that game, yes. Most of the MGM properties have it. They have it for $10 and sometimes even $5 at Monte Carlo and NYNY and $10 at MGM.
     
  11. jamesxnj

    jamesxnj VIP Whale

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    I was in the Palms a few weeks ago and the VP machines you are looking for are close to the restrooms in the back.(the area farthest away from the food court).There are two banks of them and are advertised on top as full-pay..My buddy found them off the vpfree site..
    Funny thing is I prefer bar-top play,just like playing down and in front of me,only lifting an arm to imbibe..
    We have been having a discussion/tryout test in LV and AC about short-term lower payout machines,vs full pay and if it really matters that much after all.Luck is Luck after all I argue..

    I blew $40 rather quickly there,I think my buddy made about $30...I left to play at the center bar and blew $60 there..one more try with another $20..that was up to about $25 and my buddy says he's off to the bathroom,but he was quick as we were both ready to take off back to the Rio,I was just going to cash out..But I kept playing that last $20 and get 4 Dueces on DW...

    http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5015&stc=1&d=1349310927

    So I left the Palms with a profit this year,did well enough on Roulette there also,and the cage was nice enough to let us scour through some $5 chips for the collection..Wow,sorry for the mini-trip report!!

    Best wishes on your trip!!
     

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  12. jimboguy

    jimboguy Blubbery Whale

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    Across the street from the Palms, The Gold Coast offers full pay VP at $0.25.
     
  13. Buddha

    Buddha VIP Whale

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    Clipper ....

    >>> The Gold Coast has a scattering of 9/6 JOB, and 8/5 Bonus, and 16/10/4/4 DW on the main floor. Upstairs by the bingo room, there are several more 9/6 JOB.
    >>> The Orleans has 8/5 Bonus at most of the bars.
    >>> Downtown, you can find plenty of 9/6 JOB and 8/5 Bonus at the California, MSS, and the Four Queens.
    >>> Another great place for full-pay VP is the Rampart, but you said you were not going out that way.

    *** Be sure to check out the "VPfree" web-site for the location of any game you are looking for.
     
  14. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    The difference between FP and the next level down from full pay (say for example 9-6 DDB vs 9-5 DDB) is about 1% house advantage. At quarters playing 5 coin in per hand, 500 hands an hour, that's about $6 and change difference in expected outcome. So to answer your question, no, it really doesn't matter in the short term. There are all kinds of VP snobs out there who really worry about only playing 'full pay' and they don't realize they spent more on the cab ride to get there than they would have by simply playing the slightly lower pay table.
     
  15. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I played at the Mirage on my last trip (mid-August)... their $25 shoe game is S17, with late surrender & DAS... the $10 6-deck shoe is H17 with late surrender & DAS.

    RE: the CSM games for basic strategy players - I like them too, anytime I'm too tired or lazy to keep a count. The advantage is that you always have, essentially, a 'zero' count. Yes, you miss out on positive counts, but in my view, any count involving 5 decks or more is worthless anyway in terms of justifying a larger bet; I would need a 'plus 12' in a 6-deck game to justify a bet increase...and, frankly, those happen so rarely as to be almost non-existent.
    But with a CSM, you never get a negative count.
    As for the CSM game being dealt 'faster', I've never had that problem. I still play about the same number of hands per hour, since with a shoe game, I tend to hit the restroom during shuffles & with the CSM I still hit the restroom about once an hour - and I take my time more when I'm playing the CSM. A friendly, gregarious & outgoing dealer (think Golden Gate! :licklips: ) also helps, as that tends to increase the time-per-dealt-hand.
     
    Seems like forever from now, but the flights are booked, so it counts!
  16. thespiritoftruth

    thespiritoftruth Tourist

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    This is probably the best site to use. Although it hasn't been updated since February 2012, when I was in Vegas in July I found it to be accurate for the Casinos I was in (Bellagio, Aria & MGM).
    http://wizardofvegas.com/guides/blackjack-survey/
     
  17. AlwaysVegas

    AlwaysVegas Low-Roller

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    lol I'm one of those snobs. But I always rent a car when in Vegas and I just like to travel from casino to casino (off Strip). I always have a vpfree printout of the machines available at a particular casino I'm going to. If the highest payout machine is available I'll play. Why not? Look at how much BJ purists flipped out over 3:2 to 6:5 BJ. Isn't that difference only like 1.3%? It's just that when you KNOW you have even a slight advantage of one game over another, why wouldn't you play it? To each their own, but being able to find a game and knowing the odds up front is somewhat empowering for a player.

    Also, the hunt for that golden highest-payout bank of machines is always sort of an adventure.
     
  18. mike_m235

    mike_m235 Tourist

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    If you enjoy driving around and playing at different places, then getting the best pay tables certainly makes sense.

    As for 3:2 v 6:5...if you were playing a dollar or two dollars a hand it wouldn't make sense to worry about it. But betting $100 a hand you're looking at about $6000 an hour, so 1.3% would be about $80.
     
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