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Video Poker Video poker: Better payout tables=tighter machines?

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by KKB, Jun 10, 2015.

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  1. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

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    DM & I play lots of video poker. We like to stay on the strip, so we accept that we are getting poorer payout tables, overall. While winning big is nice, we just want our daily allotment to last all day...and usually it does. We are typically quarter players, full pay, though may drop to .10 or .05 if the machines aren't showing us love.

    We did hit Ellis Island & several downtown casinos this trip. We have hit the Palms in the past. Honestly, our $ have not gone as far at these casinos whose VP machines have better payout tables. We can never get on that "run" (even for a short period of time) when you are "winning'. Hitting these machines is very hit & miss.

    Yet when we play on the strip (at CET properties--they are giving us the comps; lowest paytables I KNOW), we can play & play & play. Mom played on $20 for 4 hours the other morning. I played $50 for 4 hours at Paris & racked up 200 points. This is the RULE for us rather than the exception. I have hit my Royals/4 As& low kicker at bar tops at Ballys/Rio/OSheas.

    Mom says she feels these machines get played more so they hit more--I dunno. But she & I both WANT to play the machines with better paytables...but if they don't keep us playing, we are moving on.

    I did hit the Bourbon Room at Venetian last week. I think it had 8/5 JOB (I would like to say 9/6, but that seems impossible). We weren't having particular luck, but then I got a machine that WOULD NOT LOSE. No big wins, but I did hit 6 full houses in 10 spins. Mom wasn't seeing the love I was, but it was a fun several hours with great music.

    Any thoughts? I understand the math...but it hasn't panned out for us.
     
  2. yankees4ever31

    yankees4ever31 Low-Roller

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    Each hand is a new 52 card deck and is regulated by the Nevada gaming commission. These casinos would not risk tampering with them. Slot machines are a different animal.

    Note: the paytables reflect lifetime win percentages over millions of hands. You still need luck with an exclamation point.
     
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  3. Rubos

    Rubos Low-Roller

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    Welcome to statistics - a lot of % stats quoted but I would think it safe to assume that the majority do not play enough hands to impact short term 'luck'
     
  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I agree with this. I might get in about 40k hands a year, not even close to having my results to fall close to the expected payback percentages. I'm royalless in the last 2.5 years, but being royalless in 100k hands in a row is still happening about 8.2% of the time...yay I feel like I have run worse on the better paytables, but I don't have the data to back it up. I assume it's bad luck because...

    As yankees said, it's against Nevada law (and many other states) to have a video poker game behave in any other way than random cards from a standard 52 card deck (53 if it's Joker Wild). Also if it wasn't against the law, wouldn't casinos just display "full pay" paytables on every machine? Why would you ever display 7/5 DDB (95.71%) at a bartop unless you HAD to??? Those who claim it isn't random never have a good answer to that last question, imo.

    And your mom is sort of right. She'll witness more hits around her because they get played more. The more hands played, the more memorable hands you'll see. And people will more often ignore the many more losing hands created by more play. But if it was just her by herself for eternity with one bartop from Sully's and one full-pay Palms machine, they will closely match each other in hand probabilities over millions and millions of hands, but the Palms unit will leave you with more money because of the higher full house/flush payouts. And I think I just gave a good description to creep out people from playing VP...:evillaugh
     
  5. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    Just luck...but I also seem to "win more" on lower "EV" machines...
     
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  6. ACMike

    ACMike High-Roller

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    The VP machines don't know what their payables are when they deal the cards. Each deal is random. What you are experiencing is nothing more than small sample size variation combined with confirmation bias.
     
  7. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Gambling is like so many other human pursuits, people look for clarity or patterns or meaning in the chaos of randomness. It's understandable, it's a security blanket or a safety net. It gives us something to blame when "luck" has turned its back to us and it makes us feel invincible, high and happy when things are tumbling our direction. But in the grand scheme, we're just ascribing emotions to thinks that are neutral and random.

    The one sure thing in all of this is that over time, you aid your own cause by playing higher EV than lower EV. It's just math. If you believe one is followed by two is followed by three and on, it's the same idea; it's just math.
     
  8. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

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    Yes, I know you are all correct...
    But I do realize the difference between probabilities & what actually happens--and we all know about that (BOTH directions).
    Guess as long as I am comfortable with my results & I accept that perhaps I am accepting lower payouts in the long run as a trade off to play where I prefer to play, I should be good with that.
    Will continue to strive to find & play higher payout machines with success!!
     
  9. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    My first rule is play where you want to be. They could load up a hole with full-pay DDB and tyvm I'd go for a place I want to be offering something lesser. It's still entertainment. It's still vacation. What's silly is people choosing shorter pay when all else equal higher pay is available.
     
  10. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds High-Roller

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    First of all: Play whatever you like to play as long as you keep within your bankroll.

    Secondly: The math conquers all in the long term, but just about any outcome can happen in the short term. You could get 2 royals back to back the first time you played VP or you could play every day for a year and get none.

    But here's how I like to think about paytables (and I have similar thoughts on 6/5 BJ): Let's say you're playing 7/5 JOB at quarter level, which has 96.15% paytable. Every time you get a full house write down $2.50 on a piece of paper, and every time you get a flush write down $1.25. Now at the end of your session add up all the amounts you wrote down. That amount is the money you lost by not playing 9/6 JOB at the 99.54% paytable.

    Some sessions you might not have lost much if anything at all because you didn't get any of those hands, but other sessions when you get lots of full houses and flushes you will see how much of an impact the bad paytable has on your winnings.

    You can easily do this math for any paytable on any game at any coin-in amount, just adjust the amounts of whatever hands get discounted on the lower paytable.
     
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  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    But you damn well better believe that they do! Probably because they unfortunately got their "bigger hits" on those poorer paytables, so they want to keep playing them! A lot of people that I play next to clearly don't care about paytables. Many 8/5 DDB (96.79%) games on the floor are often used while 9/6 DDB (98.98%) games are available at my two closest casinos for quarters!
     
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