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Understanding Comps/Players Cards

Discussion in 'Comps' started by MrsFuri, Mar 13, 2015.

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  1. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    Hi All-

    I've mentioned this before, but for the sake of this being a new thread... I am not new to gambling, I am not new to Vegas... but I am new to this whole comp thing. Seriously, I didn't think much to get a players card nor did I think about comps (I really thought that was for really high rollers). I have been seriously missing out... seriously. For a long time.

    Well, that is NO MORE come my upcoming trip in April (and another later in April).

    Now, I need to get serious and try and understand what all this means and what I should be looking for. I'm pretty sure I've gotten screwed out of a lot, by not knowing...

    Ok, so Palazzo is our home casino. Or it has been, it will continue to be unless we venture out... for now, I think we'll give Palazzo a try but with a more firm stance related to our spending and gaming.

    So here is what their "basic level" earns at:


    Grazie Points and Status Points earned when you charge to your suite
    $1 = 5 points
    Earn Slot Reward Points when you play reel & video reel games.
    6% of Theoretical Win is available in Slot Credits
    10 points awarded per dollar of Theoretical Win
    Earn Slot Reward Points when you play video poker, KENO & table based video games
    6% of Theoretical Win is available in Slot Credits
    10 points awarded per dollar of Theoretical Win
    Club Grazie Resort Loyalty Points $1 room charge = 5 pts

    Is that the "theo" (theoretical win) I see some of you mention? How does that work? How do I find out what that is? Should that be automatically applied to my account or do I need to "ask for it"?

    I'm 100% sure that we should have made either Gold or Platinum on our last trip... based on our w2 and if the points are as they say above... based on our room charges. We stayed 3-4 nights (I can't remember), Prestige level and ate 100% at the hotel and charged everything to the room... our room charges were high... very high. But when I log in to my Grazie account, I'm not Gold or Platinum. Hmmmm...

    Anyone want to take some time to show me the "comp" ropes? As an aside, we play a hundred to a couple hundred a roll/pull/hand (sometimes more, depending) and we play craps (mostly), slots (mostly $1/$5 and max usually), and BJ...

    Any help would be truly appreciated and thank you in advance!

    Here's To Gettin' Lucky,

    -MrsFuri
     
  2. Hobofrank

    Hobofrank Prime Minister of Idiocracy

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    yeah that's THEO, also you get Tier credits for Gombol and for spend/dining if you charge to the room or pay and hand the Grazie card over like a supermarket rewards card at Kroger
     
  3. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    Kroger! Aren't you in CA? Ralph's in CA... but I love the analogy!

    They say it as "Theoretical Win"... isn't THEO your Theoretical Loss? I am confused by their language.

    How do I calculate theo? Because what I'm seeing and reading, seems way to low... ex: I read the following scenario...

    For example, $20,000 coin-in x a theo of 2% = $400 x a 25% kickback rate = $100 in comps earned.

    That doesn't seem like "enough" based on what I've been reading, what friends have told me... if it is, then apart from just using my card (for other perks, like attaining Platinum and Limo Transport/Platinum Lounge/Guaranteed Upgrades as a part of Grazie's regular program), it doesn't really seem worth it to even understand it or make sense or spend time on it. $100 in comps doesn't really go far...

    Am I not understanding it right?

    Thanks for your help!
     
  4. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    THEIR Theoretical Win, is YOUR Theoretical Loss.
    EDIT: FWIW (this is just IMHO) V/P is the worst for comps (unless you are a high roller).
    But $100 for $20k coin-in (on video poker) is probably close to right, maybe a little more on slots, so it probably balances out.
    And yes, $100 doesn't go that far (on the strip; where everything is high-priced)
     
    Palace Tower Suite!
  5. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    Ahhhhhhh.... I knew I was over thinking that. Thanks!
     
  6. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I've just started on the Palazzo/Grazie program - here's my best go at an answer for you ~ with a couple thoughts to keep in mind~

    1) Theo on slots is a different calculation than what you showed. It would be something more like:

    Number of hours played X Average bet size X Decisions per hour (assume 450 for slots, but could be Higher or lower) X House advantage of the game played~ which could be 10-15% possibly on penny slots - less for higher denomination slots.

    2) At Grazie, the Theo calculation is already done for you, and it's reflected in the points accrual when playing slots - and every machine will show a different countdown since the HA is set different for different games. So, at the base level where it giving 10 points for Theo dollar earned, if you accrued 20,000 Grazie points from gaming, then you had to have a THEO of 2000. At Gold, you accrue 15 points for each Theo dollar, so 45,000 points should reflect a 3000 Theo.

    I had previously walked through and played a wee bit last summer - but it triggered a basic offer -

    3 comp nights (Charged the resort fee)
    Tournament entry (Slots) - worth $100

    I used the above offer -using only 2 of the 3 nights in December/2014
    Played just enough to get Gold level for 2015.

    - I didn't ask anything to be comped off the back as I had already checked out before I gave most of the play. But, it triggered another marketing offer.

    - 3 free nights (now included a comp upgrade because of gold level, and they didn't charge the resort fee saving an extra $29 per night I think.)
    - $600 in free play
    - $150 in dining credits
    - 2 show tix ($162 value)

    On this stay I accrued just over 45,000 points from play. The host removed all balance of food & Misc charges which was another $400 or so (over the $150 deducted from the initial offer), leaving only charges that they can't comp off - agreed upon upgrade fees & tips. Maybe there was more room, but I didn't have any other charges to cover. On that balance I did pay, they gave me 20X on points, so almost another 9,000 points towards tier progression towards Platinum. As well, I think I've redeemed about $300 in free play from points, and still have a balance amount to use.

    THEO matters at the end of the trip because they will use that number to see if there is any room for back-end comps. The hosts will vary as to what % they will use, some won't disclose it, and I've heard it range on the boards usually between 25-40%. Values from the front end comp are used first before any additional comps will be issues - you have to cover the offer first. As well, the back-ends can be considered for comp based on THEO, or, actual losses - usually whichever is greater.

    Much of the value of using the card can be from upfront marketing offers sent after a trip. Sometimes they send teaser offers, which are large compared to the amount you played there, some reflect your actual play. Sometimes you can be under comped as well. Many figures are confidential to the house so you may only get a general sense of if the comps accurately reflected your play.

    In my case, I look at the December play that triggered this past offer - I couldn't have had a THEO of likely more than 1850, given the previous play - and as listed above, that was the marketing offer sent.
    On this recent trip, I think my THEO was about 3000 (just over 45000 points earned at gold level) - so I'm thinking my offers should increase. That said, I also didn't lose any money there this trip, and I used back end comps. Not sure if that ends up reflecting poorly into it - we will wait and see for the next one to arrive.

    Palazzo is really bad, in my experience, in releasing numbers. In December I tried to get the numbers from my play, but they would only release my hours and average bet. Table players have said they had a hard time getting numbers there as well.

    Lastly, at Palazzo, you can get a win/loss statement for your account for the previous year. On that, it will show your actual coin through - though I don't think that number really matters there, just the THEO, and it's been calculated and reflected into the point system.

    I'm far from being well versed in the whole comps/THEO/card conversation, others will explain it much better, but as to if it's worth the bother to get a card - IMO, YES!

    Good luck!
     
  7. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    This helped a LOT! Thank you ;)

    I am going to gamble either way but it's nice to know that some of the stuff we will spend money on could also be comped.

    That gives me more incentive to play more at one place (palazzo) than our usual "walking around", though we will do that too.

    Thanks VC!
     
  8. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Some quick thoughts on comps:

    - When you can use your card, you should use your card. Thats for gambling, but as well for spending like dining, checking in, drinks at the bar, going to the spa

    - You have to be able to charge to room. If you check in and they ask if you want to leave a deposit to be able to charge to room and you say no then you won't be able to get any backend comps

    - You have to give them something they can comp. This means charging at least some things to your room, like dinners, spa trip, drinks, room service, etc

    - You can go to the Grazie Club booth during your trip and just ask them outright if you can get ____ comped. You need to know what you want here not "can I get something comped?" like "Do I have enough play comped to get some massages at the spa?" or "Do I have enough play to get dinner at ____ comped?"
    Most of the time they will just take the easy out and say "Charge it to your room and come see us at the end of your stay" but sometimes they will give you an answer

    - At the end of your stay, but BEFORE YOU HAVE CHECKED OUT, go to the Club Grazie booth and just give them your club card and ID and say "Hello, we are checking out this morning, can you check our play?" or something to that effect, you can even add in the "...can you see if we have any additional comps?" to your question but they know why you are there and what you are asking for.

    - Don't be shy or worried like "oh they are going to think I am cheap if I ask for freebies" - thats the whole purpose of their job: to stand there, issue cards to players and give out comps. If you have a host this would be where you would instead go talk to your host, the hosts at the players club booth are just hosts for the people who don't have a host.

    - This is why you have to charge things to your room: they can only take off what hasn't been officially paid for yet. If you went to dinner at their fancy restaurant and paid for it by credit card or with cash they are not going to give you a refund or chargeback - that money is spent and gone. But if you charged to your room they can reduce some or all of the charges.


    And thats about it. A lot of people hate the asking part or are worried they'll look cheap or stupid or something if they ask and are told no - but a key thing with comps is: if you have never heard the word "No" from a host or the club booth, then you probably aren't asking for enough. But if you are concerned about the asking part just pay attention to other guests when you are in the Grazie line: you'll hear that most of them are asking for freebies and a lot of them act like entitled dinks about it, thats why I just try to be polite and friendly and be a refreshing customer to them.
     
  9. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    Auggie-

    This is fantastic! I have just never asked... and I give PLENTY to comp... I will certainly do all you said :) and I will not act entitled! PROMISE! I have played and will continue to play for fun, but dammit if I am able to have SOME of it comped, then I should at least try :)

    Thank you again! I appreciate you taking the time to write this!

    -MrsFuri
     
  10. Geogran

    Geogran OTD Tea Sipper

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    I won't go into the 'theo' since others have covered it...

    Regarding a players card, you might consider getting one at every property you gamble at and when signing up be sure to provide your email for future offers. You would be surprised at how little play it takes to get free room or discounted room offers, Freeplay, and Food and Beverage comps. We only played at Venetian for a few hours on two occasions last year and we got 2-3 night free room, Freeplay, etc, offers.
    We are pretty much Mlife players (MGM properties) and get free suites, limo, generous F& B Resort Credits,Free Play, etc since all our play is on the same players club card the points/comps/offers accumulate quicker. Plus when using Mlife players card you build up Xpress Comps that can be used towards food, drink at any of their properties, plus spa or shows or towards room charge at the property you are staying at. My husband and I have separate cards, but the 2 accounts are 'linked' so our offers are based on our total point play on slots.

    I'm guessing it's similar at other Casinos as well. I may be biased towards Mlife, but I believe their comps are a little better than Palazzo/Venetian.

    ALWAYS using your players card at slots, VP, table games wherever you play will assure you of getting max points which turn into comps.

    Auggie's advice is right on - Always talk to a host or players club desk staffer BEFORE you check out and charge to your room when possible to try to get additional end of stay comps....

    Wishing you mega comps on your future trips!
     
  11. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    Thanks Geogran!

    I haven't asked about combining... hubs and I play equally, so combining could be pretty awesome! We always charge to the room, so that's easy... and there's always plenty to comp! I will most certainly ask moving forward... man I wish I would have know to do this 10 years ago... shoot!
     
  12. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    As funny as this may sound... I have never gotten an offer in the mail from Palazzo and today, husband checks the mail and I have an offer of 3 Free Nights, $300 Slot or Table Match and $300 F/B.

    I'm lucky already!
     
  13. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    My gf and I play on our own cards but haven't had issues getting a host to comp off our bill from our room together.
     
  14. Bgoll279

    Bgoll279 Tourist

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    I just came back from Venetian Thursday. I was not happy to find out they no longer link cards under the same household. They did that a few years back, but according to Grazie rep, discontinued the linking a while back. I hope to build my points back with them, as this was my first stay back there in a few years. Maybe I can get a similar surprise in the mail. It looks like we will be working on points the same time next month. I go back to Palazzo April 10th. Good luck to you and your husband!
     
  15. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    Well that's a bummer! We will be there the 9th to the 14th! Best of luck... if ya see us, say hello (if you're so inclined)!

    Best of luck to you as well :)
     
  16. Hobofrank

    Hobofrank Prime Minister of Idiocracy

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    hold the phone, you know Ralph's?
    bitch?, you are now my new favorite "single serving friend"
    I say Kroger to my friends out of state, because nobody knows Ralph's, even in SF
     
  17. MrsFuri

    MrsFuri Low-Roller

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    I'm a So Cal girl :) I KNOW Ralph's! HA!

    You're cracking me up....
     
  18. ardee

    ardee VIP Whale

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    The solution to that is just to use two cards on the same account. The wife and I both play on my card with no problems.
     
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