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Understanding ADT?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by VegasChic-, Apr 8, 2014.

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  1. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    I understand the concept of all the factors working going into ADT, but I'm trying to figure out the practical of it.

    Can someone share what an ADT score would look like (is it a dollar or percentage) and is there a general range for what is considered low, medium or high within those number ranges? I believe each casino has different calculations, so are there different ranges that each casino uses as a bar for what is good? If so, does anyone know what they are specific to CET and Cosmo? Lastly, do those casino's typically release your number if you request it?

    Thanks for any insight!
     
  2. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Its usually just a dollar value of what the casino thinks it will make off you when you come to visit their casino (your theoretical loss). Might be a per day amount, might be for a set number of days, might be per trip.

    The casinos then use that number to decide what comps to offer you. IE: if you are good for $250 every time you visit their casino and they normally return 35% back as comps then they would try to line up comps for you worth about $87.50 a day... which in Las Vegas might be a free hotel room.

    Note that each property doesn't calculate ADT the same, nor are they all 35% back in comps and in some cases the numbers are straight up as simple as "total you have lots divided by number of visits equals ADT" whereas with others the numbers could be complex, like: "we only look back over the past 2 years and your ADT is total lost over 2 years divided by trips and then multiplied by .3, plus total lost over last 12 months divided by trips and then multiplied by .4 and then total lost over last 3 visits divided by 3 and then multiplied by .4"

    The point is that its not often a simple and easy number to calculate and in most cases you can't just go and have one really big day and drive your numbers up (or on the flip side one really small day that drives your numbers in to the dirt)... IE: if you were worth only $200 a day and then suddenly one day you should up and lose $5000 they will take that big loss in to account, but they are still going to see you as a small time player and consider that $5000 to be an anomaly until proven otherwise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  3. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    Right, of course! So how does luck factor in, or is that part of the complex calculation?

    Meaning, if you compared a situation where your score is 400...if you lose $400 in an hour and leave vs walking in and on your first 100 cash you just churn the winnings playing for 6 hours and end up leaving the day breaking even. Do both situations likely maintain your score?


    Thanks-
     
  4. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Luck is not taken into account in the equation...

    Your ADT isnt calculated by your loses...its by your play. So if you lose $400 in 1 hour you will get way less ADT than you would if you played for 6 hours on $100 (assuming you were playing at the same level and just got lucky in the latter situation)

    ADT is Average Daily Theoretical Loss...interchanged with Theo

    Theo = average bet ($/bet) * bets per hour (bets/hour) * hours per day (hrs/day) * HA (%)

    So you will result in a value with units $/day which is the amount the casino expects you to lose per day playing that particular game at that particular level
     
  5. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    ADT is based on type of game played, length of play and average bet. Actual loss doesn't factor in unless you are talking five or six figures.
     
  6. BayouBengal

    BayouBengal VIP Whale

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    At the Cosmo I spoke to the Host on duty just prior to check out and he was able to tell me that I played for "X hours at an average of $Y/hand" and based on that he comped off a few things. He wouldn't tell me what my exact ADT was but based on the games I played it was a fair comp relative to my play level. I saw him hit 0.35 on his calculator right before he told me a number so it's pretty likely that Cosmo comps 35% of your ADT.
     
  7. Amn1410

    Amn1410 Low-Roller

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    At the end of my last stay, I spoke with the host on duty at flamingo, and she calculated it by 20%. She also was only looking at my ph Theo. I played the most at flamingo and a little everywhere else, and I told her so. She didn't care as I had my biggest winning trip ever.
     
  8. VegasChic-

    VegasChic- VIP Whale

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    Thanks for the posts....I think I get it now, I was confused by the impact of win/loss, but that it already factored by the house advantages (tables) and pre-sets on the slots. The more desired players are those with higher/longer play to feed those percentages through their casino....not just short term losses.

    I guess this explains the newer high volatility slots....harder to maintain ADT long term!
     
  9. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    thats why casinos what 4 hours per day times x number of $ for a room comp
     
  10. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    This entire thread is a mess, but THEOretical loss does not have anything to do with actual wins or losses. It is based on how long you play, at which game, at what average bet. It is a dollar figure, not a percentage.
     
  11. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Primary factor is money you have put at risk. Meaning, how much have you bet?

    Yea, they do factor it up and down based on game type, but bottom line, how much money did you put at risk. The casino knows that for every dollar you bet, they will get a certain percentage. The more you bet, the better for them.
     
  12. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Not sure why its a mess...there is some pretty good info on ADT here.

    It is specifically stated that actual losses do not effect ADT...



    At infinite time, your theoretical loss and your actual loss will intersect...
     
  13. Taking

    Taking Tourist

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    So in the game of blackjack, does your skill level have anything to do on how much you are comp'ed? Say if Player A plays by the book on a double deck S17 game while Player B plays the same game but is wild as can be....do they get comp'ed the same?

    Also, say player C only wants to play 1 on 1 with the dealer and would take many more hands than say player D who only plays at a full table.....does player C recieve more comps because he is playing more hands/hour?
     
  14. paperposter

    paperposter VIP Whale

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    YES:thumbsup:
     
  15. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Along with the actual policy of "how to rate players", you have one more factor working for or against you with table games. THE PIT BOSS. He (she) is a human and they make judgement calls and write down your average bet, skill level, etc. What happens and what they write down is always subject to, ... well... a human.

    Keep in mind, the pit boss is not the one giving out comps directly. He is only tracking your play and reporting it.
     
  16. Taking

    Taking Tourist

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    paperposter....

    One word answer's really don't help. "No" they don't get comped same or "no" it doesn't matter the skill level so therefore they get comped the same.
     
  17. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Check yourself big homie...


    To answer your question, a player's skill is not factored into the equation...nor does the number of players at the table.

    The equation is: ADT = Amount per bet ($/bet) * Bets per hour (bets/Hour) * Hours per session (hours/session) * HA (%)

    This will yield you a result of $/session...which is how much you SHOULD lose per session based on your average bet and how long you played.

    The bold terms are constants for a particular game. The Pit Boss will enter your average bet and how long you played...thats it.

    But as mentioned, the Pit Boss has all of the control...if one player is using perfect strategy and another is just winging it...then the player winging it will probably get rated higher (assuming both players are betting the same amount) This is because the player winging it will lose more money during a future trip...so the Pit Boss wants them to get more comps so they come back.
     
  18. DuckyD77090

    DuckyD77090 Tourist

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    This is true - although not necessarily in the way I first read your comment.

    The person who blows $400 on a very bad losing streak of sixteen hands at $25/hand of blackjack may not even be noticed for his 15-20 minutes of play.

    The person who puts $100 on the table and goes on a huge initial heater and plays for 4-6 hours betting the same $25/hand will get many more comps, all the while risking nothing more than his previous winnings.

    It's a dubious logic, but the second player could walk away at any time. The longer he plays, the more money (even if it's his winnings) are risked, the better chance that the casino makes out in the end.
     
  19. dutchvelvet

    dutchvelvet VIP Whale

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    Here's a question. Anyone know for sure if MGM attempts to track Actual Loss at table games? I heard somewhere that one of the unwritten criteria for Noir was a an actual loss of $150,000. Seems to indicate that they must watch actual loss-but is it done for table games?

    I'm just curious. The last time (I was there for a day) my only play was a 30 minute cold streak that ate up $1000 at $50/hand blackjack. I'm wondering whether someone rating my play this time will see the actual loss, or only the 30 minutes at $50/hand.
     
  20. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Actual losses are tracked, but not very closely outside of high limit. Thats how they give you your win/loss statement at the end of the year.

    When you sit down and give your players card to the Pit Boss they enter how much you bought in for. When you leave, they enter how much you left with, however they sometime miss the exact amount you left with or miss a rebuy.

    In high limit, since there is less action, the pit boss can track it very closely...especially if you have a marker. At super high limit, someone stands there and records every hand you play...so they can get your loss rebate accurate.
     
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