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Table Games Ultimate Texas Hold'em

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Hurr1cane310, Sep 19, 2013.

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  1. Hurr1cane310

    Hurr1cane310 Tourist

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    Not sure if this should be here or in comps so sorry if its wrong. Played UTH for the first time and was wondering how it was rated.

    Lets say I am playing (just an example) $25 on Ante $25 on Blind and $25 on the Trips bet. Am I being rated at $75 average bet? I would assume it is impossible to keep track of the Play bet accurately as each hand it can be a different amount.

    Also is the higher house edge on the Trips bet factored into your theoretical loss?

    Thanks for the help and once again if this should be in Comps I am sorry.
     
  2. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I asked a Golden Nugget 3-card poker dealer about this a few trips ago (regarding 3-card, not UTH).
    The way he put it, they counted the ante & play, but not the pair plus.
    So, playing $5 ante was being rated at $10.
    Since the Trips bet is comparable to the Pair Plus, I suspect your rating would be $50/hand, not $75.
     
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  3. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    not rating the pair plus/trips bet is totally wrong. there's no way they don't rate that. those bets are in play on every hand and have a huge HA.

    what I heard they do on these type of play/fold games where you can take part of your bet back is rate you half your play bet. so 25/25/25 would be $62.50 avg bet.
     
  4. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    MLife properties tend to rate UTH at 3x Ante plus Trips. Bally's gives you full Play, so they rate 6x Ante plus Trips (not sure if all CET properties rate this generously).
     
  5. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    The way the dealer explained it to me was, that since the pair-plus did not have to match the ante/play bets, they could not rate those bets... in other words, a player could be betting $25 each on the ante & play and only betting $5 on the pair-plus.
    So, in that case, they would rate the player at $50/hand.
    The argument is that the pair plus is a seperate bet, independent of the ante & play bets.

    I suppose if a player was betting the same amount (or more) as their ante bet every time, and called it to the pit's attention, they might be able to get them to rate that play. I don't know.

    note: the other thing is that pair-plus and trips bets are optional for every hand. You could bet $25 on one and zero on the next, all the while betting $25 on the required plays.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2013
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  6. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    this is just bad logic and that's not how it works. when you have a game with multiple bets, they add up the total amount you have on the felt and that's your bet. e.g. in Bacc if you bet $100 and $25 on the tie, you will be rated at $125. in craps if you bet $100 pass line and throw $25 on the hard-8, you'll also be rated at $125. in pai gow if you bet $100 plus $5 on the bonus, you'll be rated at $105.

    and it doesn't matter if you only bet those side bets every 10 hands or whatever, you get credit for the bets that you make. the pit boss may or may not actually make the correct adjustments since it's a lot of guesstimation, but that's how it's supposed to work.
     
  7. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Shifter...I'm not arguing with you! This is just how the 3-card dealer at the Golden Nugget explained it to me...I'm not saying he's right.
     
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  8. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    I was playing 3-card at MSS a couple of trips ago, and the dealer there told me essentially what you're saying - that the rate would be the average of your total bets per-hand, including the pair-plus.

    Perhaps both are true for the respective casinos. Perhaps a former pit-critter is here on VMB who can shed some light on this.
     
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  9. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Dealers do not aleays have the best information on rating. Also, in the carnival pit, a bad pit boss may confuse the games and rate you incorrectly. An example is a UTH player being rated as if he was playing 3card...very bad.
     
  10. Boone

    Boone Tourist

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    I play Crazy 4 card with my wife and get rated at $400.... Pit said that was based on 100 on each and since you play the majority of hands there is no sense in trying to average it.
     
  11. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    I've found it to be 50/50
    Some places on rate you based on the Ante/Play (ie: ABSOLUTE MINIMUM)
    Then some places rate you based on Ante/Play + 2x raise (TRUE average)
    I'm hoping when we go in December to Vegas, MLife properties rate it on TRUE average (ie: $40 average for a $10 table)
     
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  12. Hurr1cane310

    Hurr1cane310 Tourist

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    Thanks for all the responses. So lets say sindustry is right and Mlife rates it at 3x ante plus trips. Lets say I bet 30 on the ante and 30 on the trips. This would give me a average bet of 120.

    Now lets say I bet 40 on the ante and no trips. I am still averaging 120, but is there a way the pit boss can denote in the computer when I am betting the trips bet. So therefore even though each average bet is the same my theo would be higher betting 30 on each?
     
  13. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    unlikely. they come up with some sort of theo number based on computer calculations and go with that for everyone. they never bother to do different things for individual people. it would be too complex and cost too much and not worth it for their bottom line. remember their concern is just for the theo to be close to correct across the entire casino. they couldn't care less about each individual person as long as it all averages out.
     
  14. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I would agree with this. Probably 90%+ of pitbosses doesn't know how to play the game properly anyway. This game is significantly more difficult than blackjack. And I believe the people that play UTH badly are generally worse than those that play BJ badly.
     
  15. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    This game is very volatile and yes, far more players who play badly...overvalue the Trips bet and undervalue the strength of their hands preflop and postflop. while I have not played at Wyncore or Venetian in awhile, I have heard they have drastically cut back on how they rate UTH. Supposedly, it is very difficult to get comps at these properties playing this game. Apparently, they came to the conclusion that those who play proper strategy, actually gain a positive EV when factoring in comps. I plan to test them out on my next big trip in January.
     
  16. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    They probably were +EV after comps. Until recently, I have generally heard that anyone that plays the game well will be at least close to break-even after comps at most casinos. But that's a pretty bad excuse to screw the ploppies over that make them tons of money. Bad players give away 10%+ of an ante, easily. Those who never raise preflop or flop will give up about 31% of an ante, if they play the river perfectly (which they won't, obviously).
     
  17. NickyDim

    NickyDim VIP Whale

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    Playing at Showboat AC this weekend and I was rated ante,blind and 1x play. My wife and I were being rated together, both playing $10 with $5 trips, and I asked the boss and was told we were in for $60/hand.

    I'm sure every every brand, even different hotels in the same brand rate this game differently.
     
  18. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    You are most likely correct in this assessment, as Bally's is the only CET prop I know of that rates at 6x Ante + Trips. Again, I also believe different pit bosses may rate differently, whether they do not know the current rate values or because they have confused the game with another carnival pit game.
     
  19. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    It's been my experience that the pit bosses have no idea about the whole rating formula, they've just been given instructions about how to come up with the average bet number. So if they just rate the Ante, the edge percentage used upstairs might be larger, but if they rate all the bets laid, the edge percentage will be a lot smaller.

    Example: some places don't rate the odds on craps, some do. But if they do rate the odds, the edge percentage used will be a lot smaller in the final calculation to come up with your theoretical loss.
     
  20. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    yep, this is so very, very important. unless you know the HA number that they use, you're not comparing apples to apples when you talk about how one place rates you vs the next. e.g. at craps Cosmo rates odds and gives you a great avg bet number, but their HA number is so small because of it the inflated avg they give you still gets you less comps than the same play at other places.
     
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