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Tito tickets and reports question

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by FuzzyDiceCraps, Jan 21, 2016.

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  1. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    Sorry wasn't sure where this question should go. Move if it is more appropriate someplace else.

    Looking at my end of year report from the casino (coin in / coin out) just as a general reference I feel like it is grossly inaccurate. So it got me wondering if there are certain things that could make these reports easily manipulatable. (Note. I'm not asking about the veracity of these reports, but about the mechanics behind them).

    For example, say I sit down at a machine and either forget to put in my card or my card isn't working. I plug 2,000$ into the machine and then realize my card isn't in. I put in my card (and don't put in any additional money), hit a bonus and pull off $1,100. As far as the report is concerned, is this -$900 (2,000 coin in / 1,100 coin out) or is it +$1,100 ($0 coin in / $1,100 coin out). Or is it some kind of hybrid. Basically, whenever you put money in a machine without a card in it, is it "lost" as far as the coin in / coin out calculation is concerned?

    As a follow-up, once you use your card with a ticket, is the ticket somehow tied to your card? So if I pull off a TITO and then use the TITO at another machine without the card, would this be tracked, or does my card need to be in in order for it to count with the TITO?

    Along those lines, if I always remove my card right before "cashing out", would that "coin out" never be realized on a report?

    Just thinking through some things and trying to get a better grasp of how these reports work.
     
  2. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    If you put money in a machine without a card in, you are invisible.
     
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  3. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    Thanks for the quick response. So then if you put in a card right before cashing out, as far as the report is concerned it looks like you "won" everything you're taking off that machine?
     
  4. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Could they tie a TITO to your card, either going in or coming out? Yes. Do they? I dunno.

    I also don't know what would happen if you put cash bills in without your card and then take a TITO out while your card is in. Obviously, they don;t know who put the cash in and I doubt they just assume it was you. So my guess is in that case, you don't get credit for the cash in, but you do get assigned the cash out.

    I worry about the readers sometimes because it seems like most of the time I have to put the card in more than once before it registers. Once it's in, I watch and make sure I'm accumulating slot points, so it doesn't seem like there's a problem once it's in.

    I always figured there was absolutely no reason figures from those readers shouldn't be pretty much 100% accurate, but now that MGM is showing coin in/out on the website, I had one trip where my coin in reported was significantly low based on the Express Comps, PointPlay Tier Credits and HGS points I got. All of those indicators said $23k+, but the website says only $18k+. I can't think of why they would give me more ECs etc than I was due, so I gotta default to where the coin in on the website was wrong for some reason. Possibly putting cash in before inserting my card, but I never do that.
     
  5. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    I'm pretty careful with my card too, although about 50% of the time I go up to my wife, hers isn't working...so we lose points. But I know I've had sessions where I either have forgotten to put in a card until after I start, or (intending to leave a machine) pull out my card, then decide to play a few more hands or spins and then cash out. So I'm curious as to how that could affect the calculations.

    Basically, our report makes it look like we lost a lot less than I feel like it should have (ha). Like I said, I know its informational only and doesn't really affect anything, I'm just trying to understand the process. Things like this bother me when I'm not sure how they work.
     
  6. sindustry

    sindustry VIP Whale

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    Cash-in does not equal coin-in. If you cash-in $1000 and hit Cash Out without spinning, your coin-in is zero.
     
  7. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    That makes sense, so the coin in / coin out calculation is the sum of the individual bets (and results) you actually made?
     
  8. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    Our bottom line is cash in / cash out. There is also another term called coin in that means coin through. It's the sum of individual bets. You could $20 in a machine and play for 4 hours on it and cash out for $20. Your bottom line is $0 but your coin in (coin through) could be $10,000 which is how the casinos track your play and assign you to tier levels. For the purposes of tier levels, the casinos don't care if you win or lose, only how much you put through the machine.
     
  9. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED !địt mẹ!

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    a lot of places measure stuff with ACTUAL money inserted into the machine (while your card is ACTIVE in the card reader), not just amount BET while card is active (although they count amount BET, amount WON, and amount LOST, and amount CASHED OUT)
     
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  10. Snidely

    Snidely VIP Whale

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    Of course they have all that data. What they do with it...
     
  11. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    cash in means nothing.

    The term coin in refers to BETS, not the amount of money you insert.

    Put in $1,000 and make no bets results in ZERO COIN IT.

    $10 in and you make 50 bets at $5 each results in $250 coin in. Of course you would have to win something to make that happen.

    Also, coin out means nothing - for most folks.

    Actual win or loss only matters at higher end.

    ==========

    (comment for anyone that thinks front money, buy in, or cash in matters - do you really think they are going to give you something for trying that trick? Think about it. They are not stupid)
     
  12. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Yeah these guys are right, cash in means nothing, it's coin in.

    I still can't think of why their tallies shouldn't always be 100% accurate, but I've seen an almost 25% discrepancy myself in one case.
     
  13. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    Thanks for the replies guys, that makes sense. I wasn't asking from a comp perspective...we get more than adequate comps for our gambling dollar...but trying to figure out how these numbers are calculated. Maybe we had a much luckier year than I felt like we did, although I suspect the report doesn't account for some unlucky runs where cards were forgotten/not working.

    Thanks again.
     
  14. stackinchips

    stackinchips High-Roller

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    I think most here have missed the point. What OP was asking, is on his Win/Loss statement, will it track your W/L correctly if your card isn't in when you insert the money. It's not a question of comps or theo, just tracking actual W/L which would require knowing how much was inserted into the machine, and how much was cashed out.
     
  15. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    Right, I was trying to come up with a better understanding of how the win/loss reports are generated. I am almost positive mine is wildly inaccurate this year, and was curious as to whether the numbers are easy to manipulate/alter based on the card being in (and working) in the machine as someone plugs bill after bill into a terminal. :)

    Does anyone know on the V/P terminals in the casino if it will give you those stats in real time? If so, I may monitor it on my upcoming trip just to see if its accurate. I've never really paid attention to these things until this year, largely because I know they are really irrelevant as far as taxes are concerned.
     
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