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Table Games The Origin of 3:2 Blackjack

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Electroguy563, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    All of the discussion lately of the degeneration of Blackjack odds from 3:2 to 6:5 got me thinking:

    How did 3:2 BJ come about? I mean, how did they figure 3:2 odds are what they'll pay on Blackjacks? Why not 2:1 or 5:1 or 20:1?

    Craps true odds are figured on the combinations of numbers on the dice which is pretty easy to grasp. But I think it's because I love to play craps so naturally I'll learn as much as I can about every aspect of the game.

    I admit I'm not interested in Blackjack and only played a couple of times until I realized it's not for me.

    Can anyone explain how the 3:2 payouts came about? Does it have something to do with the 52 card deck and the amts. of "10" cards are in it?

    I apologize if this seems like a lame question, but...there it is! :thumbsup:
     
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  2. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Somebody probably just did the math.

    Because dice have only 6 sides and there are only 2 of them involved in a game of craps its pretty simple to figure out the odds and come up with some payouts... with cards its the same thing, there are just more possible combinations.

    The games that blackjack was derived from were originally games players played against each other, not against "the house", where the goal was to draw cards to get the closest to 21 without going over (note that back then the decks of cards used for these games only had cards ranked from 1 to 7, so there was actually a bit more action than you would expect with today's modern decks of 52 cards).

    And then eventually somebody decided to make a casino gambling game out of it using the modern 52 card deck...

    When it first appeared in casinos the game had a bunch of bonus payouts if you won with certain hands, like not busting with 5 cards, making 21 with 7-7-7, etc. "Blackjack" was one of the bonus hands: if you had the ace of spades and either of the black jacks you were paid 10 to 1.

    Eventually the game was fine tuned over the years and all the carnival-esque bonus payouts were dropped except for the "blackjack" which came to mean the ace and any ten value card.
     
  3. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I would guess maybe some math went into it. Maybe not.

    Could also IMAGINE a discussion along the lines of:

    When you get a BJ, lets pay extra. How about double the bet? Nah, that is too much. Lets give a bonus of bet plus another half of the bet?

    Googled and got a little history, not much. Or here
     
  4. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Interesting links. Thanks for the info.

    Just curious about the 3:2 pay-off since the 6:5 thread got people swearing they'll never play BJ again. I just kept thinking what if there never was 3:2 offered and 6:5 was the original pay-off. Would people get bent out of shape if 6:5 for Blackjacks were reduced to even-money for blackjacks?

    Probably.
     
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  5. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Interesting. If a blackjack were treated like any other 21...meaning that a dealer blackjack would push with my 7-4-10... I suppose that would help ease the pain.

    The thing is, this game has had the 3:2 payout as a give-back for the huge house advantage of winning with a busted hand against your busted hand (it happens a LOT, btw).

    With CET (and others) changing that 3:2 to 6:5, without changing the other, is truly a slap in the face to any regular blackjack player.

    There are many ways the house could give back some it's edge in exchange for going to 6:5.
    My favorite would be allowing player surrender ANY time prior to the dealer making a 17 or better.
    That would be a fair trade-off for being paid 6:5 or even 1:1 on blackjack.
     
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  6. DonnyC

    DonnyC VIP Whale

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    I mush don't see that happening TC. Not enough pushback from players.
     
  7. WrongWayWade

    WrongWayWade VIP Whale

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    How would you know the dealer is going to make 17 or better?
     
  8. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Originally they did give something back, it used to only be on single deck games. So that blunted the loss somewhat. But now that it's become acceptable to so many people they probably don't have any incentive to give something back. If they wanted to do that they could just as easily make it a 7:5 game, S17, RSA, or surrender, etc. There are lots of traditional good rules they could choose from. Instead those tables tend to have the worst of all rule variations and people still play them.
     
  9. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    Makes sense--a player willing to accept something as egregious as 6:5 is unlikely to care about S17, DAS, surrender, or anything else. He cares about how low the minimum bet is and how big the boobs in front of him are.
     
  10. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    It would be great if players would push back but there are simply too many ploppies out there whom do not know any better.:peace:
     
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  11. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Like this, as an example:
    You are dealt a hard 15 against a dealer 5. So, you correctly stay.
    The dealer flips up his hole card and it's another 5.
    You would be given the opportunity to surrender right then.
    Suppose you still choose the play the hand - and the dealer then hits a 6 to his 5-5, for a hard-16 total. You would be given another opportunity to surrender, as the dealer must take another card.
    Now, not that ~would ~ surrender with a dealer 16, but that would be the concept: allowing players to surrender at anytime before the dealer makes a hand or busts.

    I realize that this will never, ever happen - it was just an idea that, in my mind, would make up for 6:5 or even 1:1 payout for blackjack.
    I would play such a game. :beer:
     
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  12. liteman

    liteman Old Timer

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    This may not be 100% accurate, but not far off. A large number of people who come to Vegas just want to play BJ, and don't know pay outs or strategy. I compare them to people who say they like poker, but simply play cards with lots of wild cards and gimmicks. I say all this being a person who likes low limits and boobs.:evillaugh
     
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