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The future fate of all that Casino space.

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by Electroguy563, Apr 10, 2016.

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  1. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Hi fellow VMBer's.

    I'm sitting here surfing our board (I'd rather do this than some other things I should do, lol!).

    I was reading several posts, links, and articles that shows for a time now how gaming revenue vs. other revenue (shopping, entertainment from clubs, shows, etc., and restaurants) is slowly declining.

    It seems there is a new demographic visiting Vegas nowadays, a younger crowd that would rather spend their money on entertainment, shopping, and food/booze than gamble.

    Meanwhile, besides all these "new" fees that the resorts are introducing, rules, odds, slot paybacks, and VP paytables are being raised and the odds and game rules are changed to being unfavorable.

    Most of the resorts on the Strip are huge. There is a lot of gaming space in these Casinos. Thousands of slot, VP machines and dozens and dozens of table games.

    I'm not a business expert, but do know that in any business, space is money. In my younger days I was a grocery manager and our shelves were constantly being analyzed for profit per foot of shelf space. I would think the same would apply to the casino floor.

    If the mega resorts are indeed moving toward non-gaming revenue what do they plan to do when the machines are sitting idle, and the tables are not busy? What do they plan to do with those thousands of square feet that are only eating up electricity?

    More shopping space? More restaurants? More clubs? Bars? Are there that much people visiting Vegas to justify filling the gaming floor space with more of these amenities?

    I don't see Downtown or the off-strip local properties to have this same problem. Their casinos are relatively smaller than the Strip mega-resorts and their clientele is still the older demographic whose main interests are gambling.

    What are your thoughts? Can the mega-resort casinos still maintain all that gambling space and still see a profit for all that real estate?
     
    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  2. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    They will turn into arcade space a la Dave and Busters and exhibits that they can monetize like the Titanic. I am wondering if there will be pressure from investors to make the spaces work as casinos. There do appear to be a few analysts that don't completely buy into the casinos being marginalized and personally, I think the revenue decline has as much to do with the way casinos are run as it does with people being less interested.
     
  3. C0usineddie

    C0usineddie VIP Whale

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    I would imagine that soon we will see all incluive types stays available in vegas like they have in the caribbean.

    if all of my food and drinks are already paid for at one place, why would i leave to go explore the others?

    Even if i do, i have already paid for the food and drinks at my home casino so its my choice if i dont want to hang out there.

    certainly i would want to hang around all day if its already paid for.

    either that or a cruise ship type model where you can buy drink credits ahead of time.

    keeps the casinos the same size, doesnt provide a ton more of useless shopping.
     
  4. andyg99

    andyg99 Low-Roller

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    Excalibur sort of does that with their all day buffet pass, I love Ecalibur but I ain't eating at their buffet all day for sure!
     
    Luxor Trip #12, Vegas Trip #28!
  5. xantharus

    xantharus Tourist

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    Fair warning... I know about zero about the nuts and bolts of the business end of the casino industry. But I think you might see a push to start expanding the places that do make money (restaurants/bars) and try to exploit gambling opportunities in those new areas.

    I know Nevada has certain rules that gaming areas must be publicly available, etc., but I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger push to put table games into the actual bar/restaurant areas themselves. Adding a couple of blackjack tables to new lounge/bar spaces would be a way to enhance the revenue of both. The emphasis would be on selling booze... but you provide the opportunity to people to gamble when they're at the "poor choices" period of the night. You already see this with the traditional video poker, but I would think there's room to do more.

    You wouldn't do it at the high end places of course, but if you had enough traffic through something like TAP at MGM Grand it might make some money...
     
  6. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    In Nevada, you have slot routes that already do that to an extent. I don't know if that will play in traditional casino spaces.
     
  7. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    None of that actually matters.

    A very easy rule of thumb you can use is: The general public is stupid. All that stuff about rules, odds and payback percentages means absolutely nothing to the typical gambler because either they don't understand it or they don't care.

    And yes, there are people who do understand all that, and some are vocal on internet forums like this one, but combined they just make up a few thousand of the 40 million people who go to Las Vegas each year and on top of that, despite "knowing better" most of them still go anyways and play games with bad rules/payback.

    Thats mostly just misleading: yes, there are reports that'll say something like in 1980 gambling made up 90% of the casinos revenue, in 1990 it was 85%, in 2000 it made up 75% and in 2010 it was more like gambling made up only about 65% of the casino's revenue (not using exact numbers, just made up ones to show the general idea)

    What those numbers don't take in to account is that back in 1980 the casinos were just casinos with maybe a coffee shop, a showroom, a restaurant or two and a gift shop and that over time they progressed, getting bigger and bigger, until they became the megaresorts of today - the big difference is: back in 1980 you had nothing to spend your money on, pretty much just gambling and if you had a big win unless you gambled it away most of that money would just come home with you or be spent elsewhere... now casinos have fine dining, attractions, high end shopping, clubs and lounges - if you have a big win today you now have plenty of ways you can go and spend all your money without even leaving the casino.

    So overall gambling revenue isn't declining, just what percentage of their revenue it represents is getting smaller - they still keep bringing in more gambling money each year from customers, just now customers have more options on what to spend it on.
     
  8. TrewBrew

    TrewBrew Low-Roller

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    I kind of like the concept of O'Shea's at the Linq. Why not offer more like that put an area that is a sports bar with gaming tables or just other nice bar settings. That way you can monitize the space selling drinks and food (away from the gaming tables) and get the gaming revenue.

    Maybe there are more like that that I am not aware of
     
  9. Its Only Money

    Its Only Money Low-Roller

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    Well put Auggie. The casinos have figured out that many of their customers are like me, who will pay for a good meal and entertainment in addition to playing at the tables. I play enough for free rooms and some back end comps, but I do usually have to pay for some things at the end. Gaming is not going away.
     
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  10. lithium78

    lithium78 High-Roller

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    The main reason that fewer people are gambling in Vegas these days is because Millennials make up a larger portion of the population now and they don't have any money. That's really about it. That's why you see stuff like the IP being turned in the Linq with cheaper eats and drinks, a smaller casino, and rooms that look one step above a hostel.
     
  11. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    Word.
     
  12. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    +1

    "All that casino space" will mostly remain casino space. Gambling isn't leaving vegas, there are just other growing sources of major revenue,
     
  13. grosx2

    grosx2 VIP Whale

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    But aren't they the ones who pay a thousand dollars for a bottle of vodka and a table to watch DJ Oontz press buttons?
     
  14. JoastTheMost

    JoastTheMost Low-Roller

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    Just because we don't have the money doesn't mean we can't spend it ;)
     
    VI: Breaking Spring
  15. lithium78

    lithium78 High-Roller

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    That's what credit cards are for (according to Millennials.)

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
     
  16. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Going to Hawaii's 9th Island!!
    Going to Hawaii's 9th island!!
  17. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    Great points.
    Gambling must be important on some level.
    Although it is only one anecdotal example,look at Cosmo.
    The place struggled for years with a low emphasis on the casino.
    They are now trying to lure casino players and deemphasizing the nightclub.
     
  18. Ally Vegas

    Ally Vegas Tourist

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    Dunno after reading a few threads here about Mlife reducing comps, limiting a 6 figure player to flat betting, V/P limiting offerings and hours of VIP lounges and personally seeing my comps reduced for winning instead of ADT, I'm beginning to think Las Vegas casinos are distinctly getting out of the gaming business....
     
  19. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    What I see is gambling space remains gambling space.
    Its the other types of spaces that get re-branded. Like the MGM Lions removed and replaced.
    Or you see new space created like outside of Bally's getting converted to those high end retail shops. :wink2:
     
  20. Film-Noir

    Film-Noir High-Roller

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    oo

    Great Thread Electro

    Awesome post by Auggie too!

    Casino's are an ongoing business, Las Vegas in particular has lost it's edge by more Innovations & better re-inventing the wheel elsewhere.
    Las Vegas has forgotten "The Player"
    The Glitz & glamor has worn off, like a gold tone watch with a base color shining through.
    Points the the Rio Screaming "Paint Me" for the past 10 years "hello CET" :poke: Bueller ? Bueller? , oh Never mind your BANKRUPT!

    Can go on & on, but not being paid as a consultant.
    /Free off
     
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