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The End of An Era...

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by thefish2010, May 4, 2015.

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  1. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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    From http://www.wsop.com/promotions/files/caesars-entertainment-has-updated-its-cash-policy.pdf :

    "Caesars Entertainment has updated its cash policy in poker rooms enterprise-wide.

    Effective May 1, 2015, gaming action at individual cash-game poker tables (aka live action games) will be cashless. This means that cash will no longer play on poker tables in our gaming destinations. Poker players will be required to purchase casino chips with cash to participate in any live-action poker game.

    We believe this decision best aligns our guest experience to stay up to date with evolving industry standards and ensure our operations can deliver great experiences consistently. It is important to note that this new poker cash game policy has no impact on any poker tournament we offer, as those have always been run exclusively with non-value tournament poker chips."


    I know this has been spreading for a while, but it really is the going to crush big parts of high stakes games. I remember watching The Big Game once and someone at the table that had a huge stack of cash had left for a while. When they needed/wanted cash some players (presumably friends of the person that was gone) would put chips in the missing person's pile and take cash - one player put two $25K chips in his pile and took $50K like it was no big deal. This is how these guys are used to operating.

    Casinos probably don't care because they think they don't make that much money from poker, not realizing that alot of these guys take their winnings and donk it off at BJ or craps. All they are going to do is push these games into private homes and lose some casino revenue.
     
  2. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    CET is dead anyway.

    they're not going to do this at the big game places like B/Aria.
     
  3. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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  4. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    interesting.
     
  5. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Yes, MGM enacted a similar policy on April 1st and almost all other poker rooms are following suit this month.

    When it came to things like the mentioned TV shows the stacks of cash on the tables was a neat aspect of high stakes poker, but realistically this move is almost entirely beneficial to the player and casinos and the only ones this really hurts are those cheating on their taxes.
     
  6. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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    Which represents the vast majority of high-stakes poker pros.
     
  7. macwjp

    macwjp Low-Roller

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    I think when it comes to the high stakes games (nosebleed stakes) I think you will find that this rule won't apply...like with everything else in life, sometimes whether a rule applies or not depends on who you are and how much money you have.
     
  8. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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  9. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    this is nowhere more evident than in LV.

    money runs the town, simple as that.
     
  10. thefish2010

    thefish2010 Low-Roller

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    Actually in this case they appear to be targeting higher stakes games above a certain threshold. The Venetian, for example posted its policy: "Players will be required to purchase amounts of $2,000 or more at either the cashier cage in the poker room or the main one on the casino floor by the table game pits." This is in response to FinCEN guidance suggesting that casinos find new and creative ways to combat money laundering.
     
  11. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I figured this was a money laundering prevention measure... and tax issue thing both mentioned earlier.

    I always felt it was weird that cash played in LV. Where I'm from, it was illegal from Day 1. It definitely won't affect me at all.
     
  12. Snickers99

    Snickers99 Tourist

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    I like the policy. I'm definitely a low roller but sometimes it was hard to see how much money someone had because you couldn't tell how many hundreds he had. Just make everybody use chips and then I know. I doubt that's why they made the change, but I'm glad they did.
     
  13. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    Wynn has done it too.
     
    Super Bowl Weekend for a Bachelor Party!
  14. Jinx

    Jinx VIP Whale

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    Actually surprised it took this long. When they went to chips only in the pit, thought it was just a matter of time. I do miss 'money plays'
     
  15. jimmysnow

    jimmysnow Tourist

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    the problem is most bad players like to stealth rebuy and this rule makes it harder.
     
  16. Superpocky

    Superpocky VIP Whale

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    Both V/P and WynnCore are both cashless now.
     
  17. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    I think that would be the other way around: nobody is really going to care if a bad player is sneaking more money on the table... on the other hand if it was a good player and they were able to sneak more money on the table and a situation came up where you were going all in (either calling or trying to push them off their hand) you might make the move thinking that the worst case scenario is that you would still have some chips left if you lose but then end up losing it all because they were able to scoot an extra chip in to their stack that shouldn't be there.

    There are a few reasons they are going cashless:

    Tax evasion/Government wants to track the money: high limit players that use chips and cash will usually store the chips at the casino and take the cash home. As they need spending money they can just spend from their cash winnings, as they go back to the casino to play more poker they can buy in with their chips. By going to an entirely chip based system if those players want the money they'll have to cash in chips and generate a currency transaction report that will let the government track how much money they have and thus make sure they are paying appropriate taxes on it.

    "Going South:" when a player leaves the table but intends to come back they can leave their chips in their spot to hold their place. When cash is in play usually what happens is players pocket the cash and take that with them and just leave the chips behind... the "going south" part is when they come back and either don't put the cash back on the table that they left with, or put only some of it back. Or alternatively, they want the cash, per the first point about tax evasion, so they buy it off the table from themselves by swapping the bundles of cash for casino chips with the "going south" part being they put out less chips than the cash they are taking off.

    Trust/integrity of the game: money always attracts cheaters and thieves... if you won a bundle of cash off somebody and they said it was a hundred $20 bills do you just take their word for it or stop the game for a few minutes so you can check the bills out and count them? There could be less bills in there, like he says its a hundred but maybe its only ninety five? Or what if every few bills in the bundle are decent counterfeits that can pass a quickie visual inspection but won't work at the casino cage or the bank?
    If somebody is caught passing a stack of bills thats short or has fakes if you take that money from the table there isn't much of anything that can be done because you can't prove they did it or you did it, if you catch it at the table you can get reimbursed from the player but they can probably skirt any legal trouble by just saying they picked up that stack the night before in another game and didn't bother checking it.
     
  18. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    Its 100% confirmed from my good friend that im with right now who is a pro poker player that no more cash on the table at any vegas poker room.
     
  19. dooner

    dooner High-Roller

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    I played poker at Binions in April and had $700 in hundreds on the table. I thought it was strange, since I knew that MGM had already gone to cash-less games. No one said anything - players were buying in with hundreds without chip runners/dealers worrying about exchanging for chips.

    I gotta admit that some players were not certain about the amount of money I was playing with - only about extra $300 was in chips, that were on top of the hundreds.
     
  20. broncofn

    broncofn VIP Whale

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    This was on Tuesday at the Wynn when PPhold and I went to say hello to him while he was playing. He is actually the one who brought it up to me. Maybe its only at rooms he plays in but he told me no cash on the tables now. He actually had dinner with pphold, plee, my wife and I on Wednesday.

    Him and I walked thru the Wynn poker room after dinner and I never saw any cash on the table myself. I did see Mizrachi though lol
     
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