1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Tax on handpay for Brit?

Discussion in 'Casino Gaming' started by crd, Feb 2, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. crd

    crd Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    NW England
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Hi,
    Im in Vegas right now staying Downtown and on Thursday night i hit for a handpay of $1500.
    Ther slot assistant and her boss were adamant that they had to take off 30% for tax which they did.
    Im sure i read, (could be way off) that as a foreigner i was exempt from US tax on slot winnings??
    I went to casino marketing earlier today and they didn't have much idea but sent me in the direction of the IRS building just behind Main Street Station.
    After standing in line for ages (great way to spend my vacation huh) i eventually got seen by some young girl who also never had much idea.
    Anyway she gave me a W-7 form to fill in so i can get a ITIN number that i need to fill in and send off somewhere, it doesn't even say where??

    Is this standard procedure for this situation or should they have paid me the full amount?
    Cheers.
     
  2. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    2,221
    Location:
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I believe that we are not exempt....the Canadians get some money back somehow....

    EDIT : I stand corrected, see next post
     
  3. Sklem211

    Sklem211 High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    949
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    17
    The UK has a tax agreement with the US so that they don't take the 30%. They can normally do the paperwork with you right at the machine for your ITIN number and give you the full amount. Although its probably a hit or miss procedure at most properties depending on who's paying you. I think you now have to apply retroactively to get back the amount taken. Other countries (like Canada) don't have the tax agreement in place and have the 30% taken no matter what.
     
  4. crd

    crd Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    NW England
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Thanks for the reply, what do you think i should do next? Is it too late to get it back from the Casino?
     
  5. ernestoc33

    ernestoc33 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Messages:
    363
    Location:
    Socal
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    It is too late to get it back from the Casino directly. Which property is it btw?

    Most likely you will have to file taxes in order to get your cash back. Once the IRS has your money here in the states, they do everything possible to keep your money.

    I apologize for them duping you like this. A few phone calls to the IRS may help expedite the process for you and make it easier. Its tax season so everything is slowing to a crawl right about now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2013
  6. crd

    crd Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    NW England
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    It happened at The Plaza, so were they wrong to withold the 30% as im struggling to understand the whole scenario? Im here on a comp and i would hate to complain but if someone has made a mistake thats has cost me $450 well i really should speak to someone.
    The whole going through the IRS hoops i need to jump through seems incredibly comlicated.
    Also im struggling to sleep so bad, always happens over here.
    Thanks for your reply.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2013
  7. Vladimir

    Vladimir Low-Roller

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Can't offer much help but it would be great if you could keep us informed on how it works out for you, there seems to be a real lack of information about this anywhere online.

    Having the right answer will be great for when I hit the Lion's share in 2 weeks.
     
  8. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Bucks, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I've been in that situation just twice. Once was at Terribles and they told me I didn't need to pay tax as long as I had my UK passport on me and filled out the form. I wasnt even aware i didn't need to pay it. I can't remember where the other casino one was but same situation. If a little off strip place like Terribles knows about it then no excuse for Plaza. Not sure you will get anywhere now though although it could be worth arguing with them and see if they can change the paperwork. It has to be worth a try I think because for sure they should not have deducted it if you had ID on you and could prove you were a UK citizen.

    Just wondering if they asked you for you passport or not. If they did then maybe they kept the tax as a tip. I'm very cynical, sorry guys.

    Corinne
     
  9. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Bucks, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Ps

    Get some 10mg Melatonin time release and you will sleep much better. Works when you get back to the uk and on the plane. I take two although it says take one. Can't be bought in the UK but Walgreens sell it there.
     
  10. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Bucks, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Pps

    You could phone the Gaming Commission or tell Plaza you are doing that. I rang them when I was there last and i have never in my life spoken to such a helpful person and had a very long conversation. They are based locally and may even come out if you make a complaint. For sure it will be easier to deal with it while you are there than once you get back to the uk.

    Hopefully I won't think of anything else once I've posted this, lol.
     
  11. crd

    crd Tourist

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    54
    Location:
    NW England
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Spoke to manager via host they say they have followed the correct procedure (although i think he is just guessing), phoned Gaming Commision and they weren't sure if they have followed the correct procedure and said to contact the IRS again.
    Im just going round in circles and if i let it, its gonna ruin my vacation.
    P'd off to say the least.

    Thanks everyone again for trying to help.
     
  12. AndyAkeko

    AndyAkeko Time magazine's 2006 Person of the Year

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    Ottawa
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    From what I understand, the casino has to withhold 30% unless you produce a W-8 BEN form, "Certificate of Foreign Status of Beneficial Owner for United States Tax Withholding". The casino may be able to help you complete this if they are an "acceptance agent." I don't know what that means, but it may be why Terrible's didn't withhold the tax and the Plaza did. (Here's the info from the IRS website under the heading "Unexpected Payment to an Individual": http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/U.S.-Taxpayer-Identification-Number-Requirement.

    At the end of the day, the casino isn't keeping that money for itself -- it's sending it to Uncle Sam. You haven't lost the money, there will just be some delay in getting it to you. The US/UK tax treaty will ensure your taxes will be refunded. Keep the 1042-S they gave you as proof of taxes paid, because you will need to get a Taxpayer Identification Number (form W-7) and file a U.S. tax return (form 1040-NR). And if you won this money in 2013, you will not be able to send in the tax return until next year.

    There are so-called "tax specialists" that will do all the paperwork for you for a fee, but assuming this is your only U.S.-source income, you can save the $100 and fill in the forms yourself.
     
  13. drunkvegas

    drunkvegas Newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    7
    welcome to Sin Tax, here in the Great State of Indiana they take State tax as well.
     
  14. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Bucks, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Interesting that they have to be an 'acceptance agent' in order to not withhold the tax. Try not to let it ruin your holiday crd. Maybe we should make a list of casinos that use these rules and just not play there. I definitely will not play at Plaza just in that very obscure chance that I get a decent win happens. They are going to get some seriously unhappy people unless they remedy that situation. To most of us it won't make sense that some casinos pay in full and others deduct a large proportion.

    Enjoy the rest of your holiday and tell them you won't be playing slots there, lol.

    Corinne
     
  15. Tubbs

    Tubbs High-Roller

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2009
    Messages:
    849
    Location:
    Leicester, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    This question comes up fairly frequently on Vegas forums. Most UK gamblers will not have an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) the first time they hit a jackpot in Vegas. It is possible to apply for one in advance, which would avoid the problems that are encountered.

    Assuming that the UK gambler does not have an ITIN, one of two scenarios always occurs -

    1. The casino pays the full amount and completes the paperwork to report the win and apply for an ITIN for the customer. A few weeks later an official IRS document arrives at the UK address so the gambler is covered for future jackpots, if they take the form with them.

    2. The casino withholds 30% of the winnings and offers little or no advice on what to do to get the withheld amount returned. Any advice offered is usually incorrect.

    Fortunately most casinos, especially on the strip, tend to go with option 1. I have yet to read of someone successfully reclaiming the 30% from the IRS. I suspect most people just give it up.
     
  16. blackjacker2

    blackjacker2 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    What a great thread and very informative from the helpful replies. Sorry to hear of your troubles. I googled the ITIN and got the following from the IRS website

    "Nonresident aliens applying for ITINs for the purpose of claiming tax treaty benefits (use boxes "a" and "h" on Form W-7). Non-resident alien applicants generally need ITINs for reasons besides filing a U.S. tax return. This is necessary for nonresident aliens who may be subject to third-party withholding for various income, such as certain gambling winnings or pension income, or need an ITIN for information reporting purposes. While existing documentation standards will be maintained only for these applicants, scrutiny of the documents will be heightened. ITIN applications of this category that are accompanied by a U.S. tax return will be subject to the updated document standards".

    Looks like you should have been offered/completed that W-7 form. Don't give up!
     
  17. SandPete

    SandPete Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    At least you in UK, no need to pay any tax at home, "just" need to get the money back from the IRS. Fair amount of countries in Europe got tax treaty with the US, problem is like in Sweden we have to pay tax on the winnings at home so it's a get it back then pay it in situation. Since a couple years back you can't file a W-7 without a tax return so can't be prepared in advance with a ITIN. If the casino know what they doing and have staus as acceptance agent it's ok, only way out of paying to the IRS when you don't have that ITIN number.

    Oh and if you have to do it yourself, W-7, tax return and all when you get home year after... need to include a copy of your passport with apostille (signed by two notarius publicus) and that will cost you a bit.. :grrr:
     
  18. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2012
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Bucks, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    If you have a host there then show him this thread and ask for his help and maybe he will see that The Plaza should be doing things properly in order to keep their international clients. I'm sure it will be far more difficult to sort out once you get back to the UK and more expensive due to their inefficiency.

    Corinne
     
  19. Grandad

    Grandad Tourist

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Messages:
    59
    Location:
    Leicestershire UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    It has been 7 years since I had a win at the Venetian and they paid me the win deducting tax but also filled in the INR form for me. Three weeks later I had a cheque arrive from the Venetian for the amount they deducted also a letter giving my Number for non deduction of tax. I now always carry that with me and just show it and I get paid the full amount. If you intend to go back to Vegas then it is worth the effort to get this special number.
     
  20. xray

    xray Tourist

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    76
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Canadians (even with ITIN) have to file a US tax return to get the 30% back.... We don't pay tax on lottery and gaming winnings in Canada so it just a matter of actually losing more money than you won in the US (and getting the withheld $ back).
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.